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Spindrift 12 #1275 - Attaching Gunwales at the bow


J. Cote

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OK, now I'm scared. ?

I've been researching the best way to install the gunwales. I want to avoid what PadrePoint experienced with his deviated septum (tearing at the bow, love his description).

1) on the plans, it says: boat is wired, longitudinal bulkheads in place, transom on (all wired), then gunwales on.

2) on the Spindrift 12 General Order of Construction Guide, it says: Make an Install Breasthook, Knees and Gunwales. But there is no Breasthook shown in the plans or parts list.

 

My temptation is to do the following:

1) make a small fillet weld in the bow (Justin C's picture).

2) Shape the Gunwale Bow point & wire the two together at the bow (PadrePoint's inwales picture).

3) Dry fit & clamp it to the boat starting from the bow & working toward the stern.

4) Let it sit for a few days for the gunwales to relax & take memory. Then glue it up.

 

Any suggestions on this process?

Photos: Justin C's small fillet weld, PadrePoint's wired inwales & my bow & possible fillet weld locations, .

Bow fillet for gunwales.jpg

Gunwales bow tie up.jpg

Jan's Bow.jpeg

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So each strip was a 1/4" thick? I bet it looks great. That would also make the bend around the bow less stressed. One problem with the S12, is that my gunwales have to be 13' long, I have to scarf.  I suppose I could scarf each strip....

How did you do mate up the gunwales at the bow?  Did you cut the right side gunwale bow to a point on the boat center line and cut each strip on the left side to match up with the right side point?

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8 hours ago, J. Cote said:

my gunwales have to be 13' long, I have to scarf.

Quote

 

Scarfing should be fun.   A scarfing jig for your table saw helps. Pete's scarfing sled    

If you are laminating three 1/4 strips I would think you could get away without scarfing just stagger the joints eight inches and place them where there is not much bend.

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On my 10 footer, I ripped 3 strips as well. My dad and I went slow, so I glued them one at a time. 3 up would be doable with good help, but 1 at a time went really well.  I second the call for scarfing - it’s really easy to do, all in all, and you’ll likely need to scarf something else up anyway......

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Jan I am sorry about the confusion. The S12 is the only Spindrift that has no breasthook. You do need an anchor point to attach the forward end of the gunwales and that is the mast collar. It runs through the forward bulkhead to the bow and doubles as a king plank supporting the foredeck and needs to be installed before the gunwales so that you have something solid for the gunwales anchor screw.  You do need to install the forward bulkhead deck beam before the mast collar.

 

The reason the above mentioned Spindrifts had laminated gunwales is that they nested. If they were not laminated the gunwales would have straightened out when the boat was cut in halves. You do not need to laminate the gunwales as your boat will not be cut. Having said that, there is a lot of stress on the wood and boat as it is forced in place and they can break if there is a lot of grain run out or some other defect. The advantage of laminating is first, reducing a lot of stress and second, it is unlikely that you will have the same grain defect in the same place in the laminations,  You need to take care to sort through the laminations and end for end every other piece if they come from the board.

 

Because you will not be cutting your boat there is no reason to do three laminations. Two will be easier to do and the forces will be reduced to about a third. Whenever I put on gunwales I always study the grain of each piece and put the straightest grain forward where there is the most bend.

 

It is important to install both sides at the same time on the boat to keep it twist free but you may put on one lamination at a time. You could apply glue to one side and bend the unglued partner at the same time so that the bending stress on the boat is equal while the first side is curing. Remove the unglued gunwale later and glue it on. The advantage is that if you you do not have enough clamps you can put most of them on the gunwale being glued and it is easier when short handed.

 

I always pre-fit the gunwales and drill and install the anchor screw as it is easier to get it right without the glue making everything slippery and you are not burning up your curing window of the epoxy and keeping your tools clean.

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15 hours ago, Joe Anderson said:

Scarfing should be fun.   A scarfing jig for your table saw helps. Pete's scarfing sled    

If you are laminating three 1/4 strips I would think you could get away without scarfing just stagger the joints eight inches and place them where there is not much bend.

Thanks Joe, I made my scarfing jig for my table saw yesterday.  I bought 3/4" x 1-1/2" x 12' poplar boards for the gunwales. After reading Graham's post, I understand what I need to do now.  So great to hear from you!

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12 hours ago, Designer said:

Jan I am sorry about the confusion. The S12 is the only Spindrift that has no breasthook. You do need an anchor point to attach the forward end of the gunwales and that is the mast collar. It runs through the forward bulkhead to the bow and doubles as a king plank supporting the foredeck and needs to be installed before the gunwales so that you have something solid for the gunwales anchor screw.  You do need to install the forward bulkhead deck beam before the mast collar.

 

The reason the above mentioned Spindrifts had laminated gunwales is that they nested. If they were not laminated the gunwales would have straightened out when the boat was cut in halves. You do not need to laminate the gunwales as your boat will not be cut. Having said that, there is a lot of stress on the wood and boat as it is forced in place and they can break if there is a lot of grain run out or some other defect. The advantage of laminating is first, reducing a lot of stress and second, it is unlikely that you will have the same grain defect in the same place in the laminations,  You need to take care to sort through the laminations and end for end every other piece if they come from the board.

 

Because you will not be cutting your boat there is no reason to do three laminations. Two will be easier to do and the forces will be reduced to about a third. Whenever I put on gunwales I always study the grain of each piece and put the straightest grain forward where there is the most bend.

 

It is important to install both sides at the same time on the boat to keep it twist free but you may put on one lamination at a time. You could apply glue to one side and bend the unglued partner at the same time so that the bending stress on the boat is equal while the first side is curing. Remove the unglued gunwale later and glue it on. The advantage is that if you you do not have enough clamps you can put most of them on the gunwale being glued and it is easier when short handed.

 

I always pre-fit the gunwales and drill and install the anchor screw as it is easier to get it right without the glue making everything slippery and you are not burning up your curing window of the epoxy and keeping your tools clean.

Oh my gosh, Graham!  I am so glad I am a coward (and didn't just dive into the gunwales) and so glad you took time to post this explanation.  This makes much more sense to me.  I kept looking at that mast collar as a potential anchor, but didn't think it went on the boat just yet per the plans.  The forward bulkhead deck beam I would have missed completely. It shows up in one side view in the plans (see photo), and is not in the parts list at all.  To make sure I understand the front view of the beam, I made a paper template (see photo). Is this correct?

I would have attached this beam to the bulkhead before attaching the bulkhead to the boat.  But now is better than not at all.

So now I have a plan.......

1) Attach beam to bulkhead

2) Attach mast collar

3) Rip 2 lamination strips per side and attach to boat on both sides equally (either glued or dry) for balanced stresses.

Thank you!

 

forward bulkhead beam template.jpeg

Forward bulkhead beam view.jpeg

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I would call it smart rather than cowardice. If in doubt check it out. I often see builders misinterpret and go down the wrong hole and make it difficult to dig back out.

 

I see that we missed the fore deck beam.  Unfortunately, you are the guinea pig as this is the new updated kit.

 

You are correct, follow your directions.

 

Your other question about the daggerboard. That is a new refinement by Alan and I believe that he intended that there be no extra handle, just clean up the hand hole so that it is comfortable. 

 

 

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As a new boat builder & a willing guinea pig on the S12, I'll start keeping a log of each step in the build as I learn them.  I'll send it to you when I'm done.  It might serve as a reference in updating the kit & plans for the next novice to comprehend.  Thanks Graham.

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We always strive to make our kits as good as we can and any constructive criticism is very welcome. Without feedback it is hard to improve. The fact that we design and use and cut our kits we can very easily make changes. One of the problems is like with the daggerboard change. Finding and fixing the instructions which can go back many iterations to avoid confusion.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/7/2020 at 12:17 AM, Designer said:

I would call it smart rather than cowardice. If in doubt check it out. I often see builders misinterpret and go down the wrong hole and make it difficult to dig back out.

 

I see that we missed the fore deck beam.  Unfortunately, you are the guinea pig as this is the new updated kit.

 

You are correct, follow your directions.

 

Your other question about the daggerboard. That is a new refinement by Alan and I believe that he intended that there be no extra handle, just clean up the hand hole so that it is comfortable. 

 

 

Are there permanent screws in the bow gunwale section threaded into the mast collar?  I don't see them on the plans.

I planned temporary screws for the first strip just to hold it till the epoxy set up. Take them out & use them again on the second strip & take them out.

The only permanent screws I found on the plans, are in the knees to prevent cracking.  Do the gunwales at the bow have the same risk of cracking without a permanent fastener per side?

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With the S11,10 and 9 yes they have screws into the breashook but the S12 with the full foredeck overhanging the gunwales provides more glue area to prevent them from possibly moving. That said it wouldnt hurt to have a couple of permanent ss screws into the mast collar piece. One thing to watch out for is if you put a nice roundover on the tip of the bow gunwales to make sure that is taken into account when placing screws near the ends.

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