jshaley

Steve, "I spent 4 hours talking boats, taking measurements, and just life in general. I didn't want to leave." One way of honoring someone is by paying it forward. You were kind enough to extend the same invitation to me, and I am very grateful. Had my 11' Shellback out for the 1st time this Saturday up in Pultneyville playing in the big stuff on Lake Ontario. If you have a hankering for big swells in a small boat, come on up!

Hello Hawk 232, So I have a thread seeking feedback on CS 15vs17 and am considering a 17. A few pointed out that there are a few beautiful examples for sale - like yours. I am sharing why, for me, this is less attractive. Big reason for me is I want to enjoy the build as much as sailing. My Shellback is my 3rd boat. Prior to were commercial fiberglass. I sold each FG boat for what I paid after years of ownership. Even with builders out of business buyers can read reviews and look for certain known flaws (ex "Catalina smile"). With private builders this is more of a crapshoot. I was considering a different wooden boat, one was available local and buried deep in his blog I saw mentioned of "exterior ply vs marine ply". Not the case w/ yours - just suggesting that craftmanship usually exceeds a commercial build with these but occasionally not so much. I can read about the sailing merits of a CS17 and apply that to all. Builder merits are individual. Again, not your boat. Alan was right about spreading the net wide. You can still post in Craigslist in any city you wish. I would blanket my region. Both my buyers for the FG boats were out of state. One even sent a surveyor for a 14' West Wight Potter to my garage. Water tribe and wooden boats sites are also a great idea because the design & designer is well known and well respected. And I drove ten hours for my Shellback from a Craigslist add. With Craigslist you are dealing more with general public who cringe when they hear "wooden boat." If you have it coated with epoxy or sheathed in FG you may wish to use "composite" and mention "low maintenance." Be prepared to say that wood inside fiberglass is pretty common. Better yet, link to an article or two so people can self-educate. Core Sound should ring like Cor-Vette but people outside of our circle don't know. You do a good job with showing the boat afloat. It sends a vibe that the boat is well loved and not neglected. My fav boat ad of the month is for an Islander 36. They show a sunset shot with grill in foreground. I really wanted to be right there sipping a cold one flipping a burger after a day w/ friends and family. Of course other photos show the merits of the boat I look for and need stats. Will it fit in my garage. Can I tow it - and don't use the salty term "displacement" - use trailer weight! Can I bring the whole family plus the dog. The lockers on a CS 17 are cavernous! This is a selling point for me. The Core Sounds attract me because of speed and relative ease of sailing. Think about what set the boat aside for you. Be sure to mention it. There are more than a few events coming up this summer where you may be able to make a weekend of it and slap on a fore sale sign. I shared that I sold my FG boats for what I paid. I doubt that will happen with the Shellback. She is still sharp, I can freshen her up a bit with paint. I paid the original owner/builder his asking price and never looked back. When I sail out the channel the fishermen stop what they are doing and watch, giving a shy wave. They do not do that for the Hunter, Catalina & O'Days

JJVir, Thank you for the follow-up. My next step is checking out Skeena, a local CS20.3. Seeing a CS17 in person I am a bit intimidated by the size. I want the boat to be stored in the garage so the CS15 is edging it out a bit. Either seems a big build and I also am considering a smaller design to ensure the "building" is as satisfying as the "sailing." Still "cutting bait" instead of fishing but looking forward to sailing existing Shellback.

Thanks Tim & Andy, certainly an option. My Shellback - researched, bought plans, assembled tools, cleared space in garage, one popped up for sale in Cheboygan Michigan - ten hours away. Sits in my garage now. So I understand what you are saying.

Maybe exercise them in the off-season? https://www.taigamotors.com/en/snowmobiles/

Link to Facebook Marketplace CS17.1 in Cleveland. No affiliation with me. $7k https://www.facebook.com/share/Kkx8aoprqeSgkLLd/

So my instinct is to pull the trigger on the CS17.1 after Graham's response, which is really icing on the cake of all of the other positive feedback (I really like icing). His note and Don's sundeck photo have really resolved any concerns about the CS15 being too lively. Turns out Steve W lives one town over and has graciously invited me to stop in, talk boats, and get a look at his CS20.3 Skeena - which I greatly admire.

So one of the leading attractions to the Core Sound line for me is speed. Not racing, but rather the ability to cover ground while cruising. I've read some of the accounts about the Everglades Challenge so the Core Sound can exceed my personal needs. I know the 20 is faster than the 17, and expect the 17 is faster than the 15. Can someone share approximately what we are talking about? If I choose 17 over 15 in addition to space and weatherliness what can I expect in speed differences? Sorry - I should have included this earlier: I live in upstate NY and have ready access to small lakes, several canal systems which connect some of those lakes and Lake Ontario which I would consider coastal sailing. I have canoe camped Georgian Bay off of Lake Huron and have enjoyed sailing Lake Champlain. I am looking for a robust trailer sailor under 1k lbs (1750 towing limit). Docile enough for my non-sailing wife to enjoy daysailing and sturdy enough for my own multi day trips. I have boat camped out of a canoe, paddleboard and Shellback so am fine w/ rustic accommodations. I have gear to camp on shore but am also looking for onboard. Primarily sailing but would be good to be able to row/paddle and take a small motor (possibly electric) Other designs I am looking at: SCAMP (too slow?), Hitia 17 (too wet?), Walkabout (no motor), Navigator, Seil 17, W17 trimaran (Long set up), Oz Goose

Paul & Padre, yes - the kit certainly is the way to go. Makes the most sense/cents for most people. I have had a false start or two with boat building. One school of thought is get the kit and go all in. The other is nibble at it steadily and before you know it you are afloat. I love supporting small businesses. Still waffling. The designs seem so close. I very much appreciate all of the feedback - looks like either choice is well supported by the community.

Thanks one and all. Steve (Skeena), love your videos. Your adventures are a big part of what I would like to emulate - trailer to destination and sail/camp. I do this now with Shellback but also have had a Precision 18 and West Wight Potter 14. My sailing was cut in half with the Precision due to challenging mast raising. The two mast approach is very attractive. I was passing on the Mark 3's since the builds are more involved and most usage would be day sails. I have lofted and cut then planed kayak plans, great to hear of successful builds prior to geared shines. Amazing responsiveness in general to my questions.

So these are great replies. thank you! Hiriilonde - great point about the garage. I feel inside storage really extends the life of a boat and makes it ready to sail. Yes, the intent is build for fun/ PadrePoint - I love the look of your 15 and the capacity being so close to the 17 is interesting. My current Shellback is pretty tight sailing more than solo. The smart thing to do would be kit, I will probably go plans so I ca space out the expenditure with the full understanding in the end this will make the build most likely costlier and certainly longer. Does anyone know who the B&B unfold happens with a plan build without the tooth pattern? Steve, good point. If one has two-foot-itus prior to the build... Don, I look forward to your cruiser report. I am In NY and often sail the same waters I used to canoe. The 2 feet would be welcome but the 15 may be more manageable in some of the tight spots i get into but also offer way more sea worthiness than the Shellback. I was not thinking about sleeping on the 15, much less an onboard tent - your photos were extremely helpful Hirilonde

The videos I see online of the CS 15 usually show it heeling a bit more than the 17. Is it that much more lively than the 17? The flat sailing of the 17 I find attractive but the 15 seems more right-sized for a beginner build project (although all the tasks are the same, it just might mean more sanding?)

Thanks Jeff!

Omar, Thank you for the photos. I love paddling Algonquin. Of late we have enjoyed Massasauga as well. One way to make the portages more enjoyable is to eliminate the portages! Algonquin is a green piece of paper that someone has colored on in blue (lakes, rivers, etc) and Massasauga is a blue piece of paper someone has colored on in green (islands). Beautiful country. John

I am seeing some beautiful Stonefly's launched year, can someone share a rough weight estimate. Looking for a pack canoe that can haul my 240lb self and gear for a long weekend. Fairly adapt at packing light.

Todd, You graciously offered to show me your Vardo. I am still hoping to connect with you (got distracted paddling). Pittsford Lumber is local to me (no affiliation) and offers Baltic Birch. I would be happy to run one of these 5x5's out to you for what they charge me. So save on shipping. Your existing frames would make great patterns and as mentioned you have the stringers. Heck, if I buy the Vardo plans I may even be interested in your frames as patterns too - although my need for speed has gone away somewhat. Anyways, just trying to help someone who offered to help me.

So I am thinking purchase one plan to look it over and see if I wish to order a different model. Adapting the same boat for her smaller frame might be more of a hassle than ordering the right sized boat. And there may be benefits in having her paddle a smaller boat while I haul more gear in a Vardo. If we go with Ravenswood, Curlew or Short Shot is any of them trickier than the other to build? I like the Kudzu fan tail on Curlew and maybe the rounded nose is easier to skin? And reading I see that Ravenswood incorporates some cool design changes - have these changes worked their way back to the other designs (Curlew II, short shot, etc.). I am having trouble walking away from the SG Shearwater mid project but I really think it is the difference between paddling this year versus next. And I have no misconceptions - boat building is addictive so there will always be a project in progress.

I like the finish. The semi transparency (translucency?) really show off that it is a skin on frame boat.

Is your strong back three 2x4's with a centerline?

she may not sink it enough Yes, with the canoe I have a 5G collapsible water jug that sometimes rides up by her. May have to invent the 'water mattress kayak seat'. I watched your skeg video. Holes and hulls intimidate me but could seal it enough I guess. Would a rudder provide the same improvement in tracking? jh

Jeff, Thanks for the reply! Yes, I thought Vardo might be big for her... "With backpacking gear you will have no problem with storage on most all of the boat." Most all of the boats. Are you saying with a small gear load (my pack holds 50 liters of stuff that can be spread around) most all of your boats would work? I read the detailed descriptions and see that most seem ok for gear for a night or two out. If this is true is there a single design that we both might fit? Not trying to dodge the extra plan price. I am looking at your stuff because of the excellent support (like responding to a question so quickly on a Saturday). But I think the idea of building two identical boats would be a quicker build than two designs. But two designs would be more fun. The Shad description mentions less pieces, which may be a faster build.

So Summer is half gone and my "build two CLC Shearwater Sports from Plans" idea is not going to make it. We have wooden pieces cut out for one kayak and a lot of sanding, gluing, and icky stitch and glue steps ahead. Not abandoning but I am thinking of setting them aside and trying two Vardos. I am building these with my daughter. A few assumptions - please poke holes in them where you see fit: Some of the stitch and glue steps she can do, some she needs more confidence for. With a SOF I think there are more steps that can be done during the day while I am at work. We are both 5' 9". I am 240lbs, she is 130lbs. We canoe camp several times every summer and are looking forward to kayaking but would be novices. I think Vardo is the right boat for both of us? Camping gear - I see the hatches and will watch the hatch video. Do people also just shove medium / small dry bags with soft goods inside as storage? We backpack, so can go pretty small / low weight. I am thinking one gets in a SOF with a goodly amount of water underneath. No mud launches where you skitch and slide yourself into the water. Other than that I can see not much difference. What sort of repair kit, if any, do people bring along. Some places we canoe are rivers. Not running rapids but may have to occasionally exit and lift over a beaver dam or such. So Jeff says 60 hours. I'd pad that a bit since it is our first time out. Since we are building in tandem (paying the extra boat license fee) I would think that the time would be more than building a single but less than double. I would set up two separate strong backs. Welcome your thoughts and wisdom. John Rochester NY PS Have seen a few local launches, would love to see a Kudzu Craft close to Rochester NY

Would love to watch the whole build, either here or if you put a link in your signature. Thanks for sharing.

These are high school age kids (14-18), male and female. Some are taller than my 5' 9"; but probably 150lbs or so. Others range down to maybe 5'. And they are growing. So if we have to weight the boat down a bit with heavier gear for lighter kids that may work out better than having them build a boat they outgrow quickly. Yes - we back pack so are used to lightweight gear and packing accordingly.

Jeff, Thank you for your answers. For the smaller paddler, with a few dry bags of camping gear, would short-shot be a better choice? Yes, by laminating the frames I am taking a very straightforward step and complicating it. I was thinking (will have to test) that the steps it takes to make a frame from a single sheet of plywood are trickier for young builders than cutting a series of marked angles and laminating around a jig. Sometimes having them do 3-4 very simple steps rather than 1-2 more complex steps pays off - but there I go underestimating them again. Best to build one or two using proven technique before trying to change anything. John