Paul356

I just wanted to share these with the group. The wing-on-wing is a photo by Diane Gallo from mid-July, medium evening air on Lac La Belle near Oconomowoc, Wisconsin, downwind leg of a "fun race." The beam reach photo is by Eric Miller during the recent Michigan Messabout at Muskegon, breezy day.

I stuff a towel in there.

No skeeters. Just a few black flies every time I sailed near one of the Bass islands. Sailed away, and the flies went away Sounds like I might see you in Muskegon?

I had to repost this. In case there's any doubt, the 17 is great boat. It was deemed a belle of the Raid last week. Scroll down for details. (Apologies for the hamfisted reef. I ran the first reef line into the second reef block by mistake. Dang reef lines anyway.) Here's a wrap up of RAID ERIE 2025. If you'd like to see some pictures and videos of the event, be sure to check out the Facebook Group, to see what some of the attendees have shared there. We ended up with 35 boats and 50 attendees, and the group raised $1,140 to support our keynote speaker, Sven Yrvind, with his latest boat build project and voyage to New Zealand, where he has been told he will receive ice cream. If you attended the event, hope you had a great time! Whether you attended or not, hope to see you for RAID ERIE 2026 - you can expect an email to go out when registration opens. You can also expect a follow up email here in a few weeks, summarizing the improvements we will make in the format, based on everyone's feedback. Oh, and if you or your business are interested in supporting the event, there are sponsorship tiers and benefits starting at just 'a silent auction donation' up through several tiers of financial support. All sponsorship proceeds will be used to directly offset the costs of the event, with an 'open books' policy. LMK if interested, and I can share the sponsor tier info! Finally, let's all congratulate our "RAID'ers Choice" winners, chosen by nomination and votes from the 2025 attendees: Overall Winner - Belle of the Buoys 1930's Pert Lowell Town Class Chris Iriarte Honorable Mentions (in no particular order) Dame(s) of the Docks Sea Pearl 21s (tie) Thad Hallberg & David Park . Queen of the Quays Core Sound 17 Mk I Paul Bargren Princess of the Pier Wayfarer Nick Slat Madam of the Moorings Flow 19 Thierry Humeau Siren of the Slips Puddle Duck Brian Little

I'm now confirmed for Sept 6 in Muskegon.

I glassed my rudder (CS 17 MkI) and have been glad I did. The prop even brush against it once while running and I couldn't find a dent. I also did the rope trick on the leading edge front, and have been extremely happy with that also. Rocks beware. Rope trick on centerboard with same happy result.

I agree. Solo I sit up at the mid-thwart if I have gear forward, or straddling it if no gear. Passengers sit foward of the thwart, normally up against the cuddy, except on the rare occasion when the boat is really loaded down with gear, and they can sit back a bit. This is on a MkI.

I saw a small CS in the harbor at McKinley today and realized it's been there the last few days, too. Coming out of the Sailing Center, I think. Who dat?

That oar solution is very slick.

I guess I should amend that: 1 quart of primer, 1 of color. But if you're using primer as a fill coat, then you'll probably want two qts of primer to make sure you have enough to paint, sand, paint, sand, etc. Btw, I used Jamestown's deck paint for the floor inside, the paint with the grit already in it. Worked swell. I repainted those areas 7 years later with the same stuff, still worked swell.

I can do two coats on the hull of my 17 Mk I with a quart and still have some left over.

It's so great to read Graham's notes. I had an additional thought about my upwind day vs the Scamp. I finally just dropped the sails and kicked on the 2.5. Suzuki outboard. The 17 went dead upwind like a champ, and really a pretty dry ride. I was amazed at how easy the progress was. I don't want js thinking he'll get stuck downwind on a blustery day. I also had a chance to try Graham's tips later, on an equally blustery day, but without the waves. Worked swell. One thing I learned was not to try to point the usual 45 or 50 degrees off the wind, 55 or so is fine and still gets you up wind.

I've sailed a couple of trips in company with a Scamp. I agree the Scamp is quite slow compared to the CS. It is also fairly complicated to build, especially compared to the CS boats. A couple of folks from a large a reputable kit-making concern that will otherwise go unnamed stopped by our volunteer shop and saw the Scamp that is underconstruction there, and has been for quite some time. One of them said, "All that work, and still all you have is a Scamp." I agree (and agree with similar comments above). I, too, have been attracted by videos of some of the other Welsford boats but those, too, seem like bigger contrustion projects than a CS. But I think all the added features probably make them very seaworthy. Attributes of the Scamp, at least as I understand them from the companion mentioned above: It has the little cuddy that helps make the cockpit into a snug one-person sleeping area, if you have right tent. It will chug on through anything, albeit at it's own pace. I have seen it recover from a capsize, and it was very quick and essentially dry, done by one person. A capsize in a CS is a different matter, speaking unfortunately from experience. The one time the Scamp really clobbered me was in a pretty fresh breeze, probably sustained >20 with higher gusts, and waves 1-2 feet, maybe a bit higher. My friend in the Scamp put in a reef and went plugging to windward without another care. I could not get to wind! I had put double reefs in both sails, and wasn't sailing the 17 very well, I decided later (too much luffing, not enough holding course). I think I would have been better off with a single-reefed mizzen in that breeze, sheeted in sort of half way. I talked to Graham later and got some tips. I think I will do much better next time. But that Scamp kept on plugging. My friend in the Scamp is looking at a Longsteps as his next build, so he's sold on the Scamp ideas, but would like something with a longer waterline and more speed. Wow, that came outlonger than I expected.

I built my 17 from Graham's kit and echo everything Padre says.

I've done a lot of day sailing in my 17 (MkI) and also a lot of sail camping, fitted out with a dodger and lately a rear gizmo that makes a tent from the mizzen mast forward. I think it's great for both. I unexpectedly had 8 people aboard one day for daysailing, but it worked great. Great ballast on a breezy day. More freuqently day sail with two ro three adults and some kids aboard. Sailed part of the Everglades Challenge with a boat full of gear and one other guy aboard. We were probably pretty heavy but, again, good ballast for a breezy run and I felt like we were moving well. When I'm aboard by myself, it's a neat sailing dinghy and I need to remind myself to reef early. Never sailed a 15, so nothing to compare there, I'm afraid. But I'm a big fan of a 17 for lots of various uses.

the 20 is emminently buildable, but it won't happen overnight. and, perhaps not needed, but a clarifying note on don silsbee's note: Alan's 2d video shows construction of a CS 20 Mark III, with cabin and water ballast. You might be looking at that, but if you're looking at the 20' Mark 1, open boat, not water ballast, construction is quite a bit more straightforward. The 15-footer is much more like the 20' Mark 1. Techniques are the same, tho, generally, in both videos.

I've been leaving mine in the boat all winter, lead wires disconnected, ever since I saw the boatyard was storing the batteries it removed in an unheated area of the shed. Seems fine. I fully charge before leaving them.

So you sit on the centerboard trunk then, I guess?

Don, I ended up putting a second set of oar sockets forward. I sit on the cuddy top and row from there. Not the best, but it gets the job done, I guess. I find I want to extend the oars out too far, so need to fight that urge. I need to take shorter, less strenuous strokes. I made oars 10.5 feet long. My crew handled the rudder. Rowing from the cuddy top worked well enough to get through an adverse tide in the Everglades Challenge a couple years ago, but it is tiring. If anything got in the way, it was my life jacket, as I'd be pulling in and then dropping hands to make the recovery. My hands got caught in the front of the jacket. I did try rowing from the mizzen seat once, to see what it was like. I left the masts on shore and headed out rowing from the middle seat. I think I felt it was kind of low, as I remember propping myself up on a cushion. My verdict was that it rowed like a 400 pound boat. That is, not that swell. I had left the outboard on, and people kept stopping by, assuming I had engine trouble and was using the oars as Plan B. I guess no one rows in Wisconsin any more. Lately I've been using a canoe paddle from the side seat near the stern. In calmer water it works great. (Lock the rudder.) I haven't tried it against a full blown headwind. All in all, I have decided the best option is the outboard, even for a short haul. (I aso found the outboard works far better for steering with the rudder blade pulled up out of the water.) Maybe I should try rowing from a standup position, standing just in front of the mizzen and using the front oar sockets. But the last few trips, I haven't even brought the oars along. They are hard to store. --pb

The wind was very light, and I knew I could go on a broad reach and/or ddw for a long leg. I used the tiller lock a fair bit while I got things set up. I had all 3 sails on one side for a bit, but the greatest effect was wing on wing, main by the Lee, staysail on the opposite side from the main. Gybing no fun, since as you know, the staysail has to come all the way down and have the tack move across, as well as the halyard. But at those speeds, it worked out. Added half a knot or more. Fun effort on a perfect day for trying it.

Similar to what you did, but when I had a similar issue Graham said, just push up on it from the bottom. Duh. Worked great.

Had it made by the skilled canvas workers at the Harken shop here. I was able to stand with them and mock up several possibilities and take advantage of their good ideas.

Ah, but I didn't let the varnish go.

I epoxied all my wood, both ply and dimension. Then I varnished it all. It looks very nice and holds up well. I put on a new coat of varnish every year or two on the decks and transom, but not that often on the seats. I do a very light light sanding first, with 220 or 320. It doesn't bother me to do that varnishing, but that's me. I feel that it holds up better than it would with just varnish. I did this also on one of my big boats and had the same result: looked good and held up better than just varnish.

Here's a screen shot of the sailing I did, including some day sailing and a random trip around one of the islands for fun. Not sure how much it helps, but fwiw. The little tents are the three camps we stayed at, and "VNP Ramp" is where we launched. I forgot to make a track for the first little hop out of the ramp to R61. For scale, it's about 7 miles from R61 to R20. We had planned to go farther east, but didn't due to predicted strong, then light, westerlies and concerns about getting back to the ramp. I'm doing a writeup for SCA soon, with more deail. Rainy Lake is a great place. p.s. Always good to hear from you.