Painting Boats

[LennieG]

Perfect! Thank you so much Paul. The hardest part of this process is wondering if it is going to work. I don't mind biting the bullet , digging in and sanding all the paint off and want to get on with it if that is what I need to do....but there are rays of hope along the way. I will do what you say first and good or bad maybe that will answer my question. I can't imagine building a boat without you guys!

[PAR]

For the peel test to work, the scratches don't have to be very heavy. Just scar the surface, maybe a couple down into the epoxy, in each direction. If it's not sticking, it'll turn up pretty quick and you can make a decision. The last time I ran into this problem I'd just painted the whole inside of a cockpit and though it was coming up in sheets in just one area on a seat, I elected to grind it all off and start over, just to be sure. It's a little different when you're being paid to do it, though. I hope you got lucky and only have to fix the bad epoxy spots.

 

You could have done it without us, though a little more cursing and substantially more drinking, might have been involved. The cussing could have been done without, but any reason for a little more drinking is hard to complain about.

[LennieG]

Test worked out well. I did about 8 spots, and all stuck well. Testing three spots with enamel, and waiting for primer to dry a little more. Thanks

[PAR]

You were do, Lennie. Now get back to work . . .

[LennieG]

Question for the experts on painting. I now have 4 coats Interlux Pre-Kote primer on, and two coats Interlux Premium Yacht Enamel Semi-gloss ( oil-based). The first finish coat left a lot of brush marks with the Roll and Tip method. Refined process, added thinner (Interlux Brushing Liquid as per Interlux ) after of course sanding with 220 grit. There are fewer brush marks after second coat but still some. Have ideas for third coat including a little more thinner and and a slightly heavier coat to give it more likelihood of leveling out.

The question: I assume there will be some brush marks after third coat. Is there some post painting treatment that retains the gloss but smooths it out like buffing (with drill attachment?) or some kind of sanding or waxing or something?

Thanks

[prelude]

Interesting reading but the work load exhausts me. 

1. I use MAS 2:1 epoxy. Haven't used pumps since my first boat many years ago. It's just to easy to pour an accurate mix and not have the worry of a reduced flow pump.

 

2. The last four boats have all been painted with latex. Bottoms, above the water line and interiors. The top line cross matrix paints like Valspar's best and others. Depends on use but a light sand and and a re-coat in 4 or 5 years and it's new again. Dings and scrapes are an easy touch-up.

 

BUT............ these are not show boats. They fish, crab, and haul a bunch of preteen grandkids. They are in salt water and fresh and are used in peak of summer 60 degree days on the west side and summers 100+ degree days on the east side of the state.

 

Why do I insist of bright trim work???? I really hate varnish but I love the look.

 

Cheers.

[Fishman38]

What about after the final finish coat is down.  Should I buff it and if so with what?  The same buffing compounds used on car finishes?  Maybe a question I should ask the paint manufacturer?

[mcdermitt]

strange question do you glass the hull first or paint before you glass.  second after you do first glass coat before you go any farther I understand you wash to remove blush then sand and put on more epox then do paint or do you do it the other way.  how many coats of epox do you do.  On the inside I never washed with water I allways sanded them used alcohol do wipe up the dust before I applied another coat of epox 

[prelude]

strange question do you glass the hull first or paint before you glass.  second after you do first glass coat before you go any farther I understand you wash to remove blush then sand and put on more epox then do paint or do you do it the other way.  how many coats of epox do you do.  On the inside I never washed with water I allways sanded them used alcohol do wipe up the dust before I applied another coat of epox 

Using MAS epoxy I have never been concerned about blush. It is either not there or low enough to not cause bonding issues. You add layers of epoxy to fill the weave and produce a smooth finish. Generally three at the most. If painting I will fill with two epoxy coats then fill and fair with a final epoxy coat thickened with easy sanding balloons. Painting is the last step.

[PAR]

Always assume there's blush, unless you can control the environment precisely and are using fairly difficult to get resins. The stuff most builders use and the environment they use it in, just will not insure there's no blush, even if using a non-blushing formulation. This is the dirty little secret the major formulators don't want to mention.

 

Paints (most of them) can be buffed up, but you need to let it fully cure, which can be a month with some types or  a couple hours with others. The paint manufacture will have the cure times and advice in this buffing regard and yes, it's the same process as on a car, you "rub" first, to knock down big defects, then polish. I use two cutting compounds in the rub phase, a coarse and fairly fine, then a couple of polishes, again one being finer then the other. Be careful what you wish for, as this level of manipulation will give you a mirror finish, if you don't burn through the paint in spots during the process (easy to do BTW) and this mirror finish will show every single fairness imperfection.

[mcdermitt]

LernnieG
I started to paint my hull  I am using allgrip 545 primer.I sanded the hull  after I glassed it then I had to let it sit since I went back to power plant   we worked 7x12 and they were painting the whole place with ppg epoxy primer and polyester paint.  but back to the boat.  I washed the hull of with water and let it dry over night then painter with a roller some places I went over it twice or so.  It was cool do not know the temp but well above freezing.  let it sit over night next day after lunch it was still soft.  I sanded it and there was not a lot of dust some chips came of.  Call Jamestown tech service there answer there was blush it was to cold and to thick.  I sanded today and it was hard lots of dust and few places it may have not stuck due to blush since I did not wash with hot water and or soap.  It looked live you boat in a previoous pic. I am going to try again when we have two higher temp days lice sat ot sun.  I need to get it painter at least primed before I turn her over and start on inside.  Have to go to WY latter next week daughter ois having operation wife to take care of kids I will come back about the 15 th  then have to go back to work for a couple months on another power plant project.  any suggestions 
The paint they used on the plant was 450H polyethanue 4 to one and the primer was 2/400 fast dry and the cure as 2 fast dry it was real thick and went on thick color was gray and a buff tan
Thanks
Mcdermitt

[PAR]

There are some really nice HVLP paint sprayers now available for not much money. The Graco "Spray Station" 2900 is one you can get for about a $100 and it'll spray a nice job for you. These are turbine sprayers and not the hand buzzers you might be use to with the Wagners of old. A little practice to get the spray volume right and you'll be laying down really nice finishes. Roll and tip is fine, but if you'd like some easy, smooth finishes, maybe with a machine that will let you do the inside of the kitchen cabinets later (a way to sell the purchase to the other half), then these units work good. I have a Graco 3900, that I use for small jobs and it's pretty darn good, considering it's cost. I've recently made two new paint tips, so I can squirt different viscosity paints, from light stain to truck bed liner type stuff.

[LennieG]

Floyd-

Best of luck! Painting has been a challenge for me but in addition to the guys on this forum I also found the paint technical (AWLGRIP) folks are awesome and you can probably find their number on the can. I learned things like the kind of sandpaper I was using (long lasting, coated) was potentially causing issues etc etc. I would call them instead of the supplier guys if you don't get the answers you think you need.

Don't overlook them as you proceed but know they may be only open at normal business hours.

Good luck

[mcdermitt]

LennieG
I called the Allgrip primer guy this morn and when over what I had done his feeling was maybe some blush maybe since it was not big spots maybe to thick but was not cured since it was soft.  Since it was like 46 this morn and going to go up into low 50s with some  rain and no sun. He felt I could go again but let it set for two days.  I did it and it is now 56 and going up he said it would cure  but may take a little longed The bow section has only one coat on it what I put on today.  will let you know how I come out.  I could have got some primer at the plant but it was thick and is gray or clay.  the hardner or cure is as thick as the resin at the end of day any cans that were open were dumped ever if they had not been mixed.  I was against gray I felt it would blend in with the water. navy ships are painted gray so maybe they will not be seen 

[PAR]

Most paints have a hard time curing at temperatures below 60. They often eventually do cure, but you'll get gray hair waiting on it.

[Charlie Jones]

On the subject of blush. I've been using various epoxies since abourt 1976. I've used WEST, RAKA, MAS, SYS 3, and lately just the epoxy from B and B.

 

I ALWAYS assume there is blush present and deal with it before I paint, or recoat over cured epoxy. It's water soluble and takes mere minutes to wash and dry the surface- why on earth skip that and take a chance of problems??

[mcdermitt]

Charlie

I did not have running water in the building and had to carry it in milk jugs.  I washed it off after I did my sanding 2 months ago and again before I started painting the first of week.and again the night before I first painted.  I just poured the water over the hull and made sure it was clear or appeared clear and no dust.  I poured water over it again last night before I repainted today.  It was in the high 50s today when I started and reached low 60 before dark it is now 48 it was dry and seemed hard to the feel

[LennieG]

Just a reminder, and someone ( maybe Howard) reminded me of this. The sequence is

1. Wash ( with something like soap, water, scotchbrite)

2. Dry

3. Sand

Not the opposite

[Hirilonde]

Intuition would tell you to use soap, as the blush seems oily, but as I understand it is unnecessary.  It would then mean you need to make sure to remove all the soap residue.  Pouring water probably does little, some physical action like using a scrub pad and cloth is necessary. And lastly making sure it is dry after.  I will wipe with alcohol some times to speed up drying.  Once you have a complete coat of epoxy on drying is quicker, but exposed bare wood takes a while, especially when it is cool.

[PAR]

Soap is necessary, though you don't need much, nor does it need to be especially aggressive. I use dish washing liquid and just tea spoon in a bucket. The soap helps break down the waxiness of the blush. Technically, blush is water soluble, but the soap makes it a faster process. Make it a point to physically tough every square inch of freshly epoxied area and scrub. If you do this with a ScotchBrite pad, you'll also scuff the surface for the next coat.

 

As Charlie mentioned, always assume you have a blush, regardless of the epoxy formulation you have. The only way to truly avoid blush is with well metered climate control, both humidity and temperature, plus dirt, air movement, etc. Very few shops have this luxury, so . . .