Fishman38 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Miyot, I'm afraid I can't accept credit for the staples idea. Believe that was Russell. Sounds like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyot Posted February 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Sorry Russel. I just talked to Raptor, and ordered their CT 6000 stapler and a box of 5000 staples(S-05-37). All for about a hundred bucks. They were excellent and helpful on the phone. I got the 3/8 inch staples. Now they answered my questions and this is the jist of it. The staples will not draw your planks together, but will hold them once clamped. You will still have to use screws to draw the planks together, unless some other type of clamping can be done. Now perhaps less screws can be used, but you will have to be sure your not getting gaps in the planking layup. I'm not depending on the staples to do the job, if they help, great. But they will be able to be used in many applications during the build. Sand-able, plane-able, etc. They do not drive in flush and remain slightly proud. So may be good for holding glass on the boat during wet out. Sounds like a great boat building tool. I will use them and report on their performance. Thanks Russell. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hightechmarine Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 Miyot jumping in a little late. Having cold molded several boats, you need a base that is either tongue and groove or bead and cove. This base varies in thickness depending on the size of the vessel. This is faired. Then the thin laminates are stapled to this. Back in the day we put plastic packing webbing down stapled through it. The theory was the you could pull the webbing and the staples came with it. NOT!!! Hours of pulling staples. We went to bronze staples that could stay in and be sanded. Very expensive and no longer readily available. Plastic staples was the next best thing still being used. They required a special gun that was very expensive. These fiberglass staples seem to be great. If they don't drive flush be a little careful holding on fiberglass cloth with it. I will cause a bubble that will have to be fixed. I am going to try their brads to hold the foam to the building jig. A friend used them and worked excellent. I have finally cut out all my building stations. Setting up the jig next. Then a little time out to take care of business. Hate working for a living. Your build is coming along great. Love all the extra reinforcement. Easy and strong PG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyot Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I received the Raptor stapler and tried it on some scrap pieces. The 3/8 staples will be good for fiber glass work. But not long enough for planking. I ordered some 9/16, they may work for holding planks together. The CT6000 stapler is adjustable, driving the staples flush or leaving them proud. The stapler has to be held square and with good pressure for it to work properly. A little technique to it. Also the new stapler has some oil in it that ejects onto the wood. I'm sure that using it some in scrap pieces first will get rid of the excess oil. Like everything else, another tool to learn to use properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyot Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Planking. Overlapping bottom planks. Had some trouble fitting planks at the bow. Discovered I had developed a slight crown on my bevels on the stem. Took some time to get them really flat, but this solved my problem. My plank batten was a little soft and was forming around the slight crown with out difficulty. Bending in the full sized plywood was a little different. The planks are now fitting much better at the bow and I feel better. Here are some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarbaby Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Don't overthink this process. Screws and washers are the preferred method. I can assure you that staples will not hold well enough to get a good bond between the layers. You can span the previous plank with the washer and pull the planks fairer.... Weep holes in the second layer will allow the glue to come out and show you that the two layers are getting a propper clamp. I am one of the foolish builders that uses golf tees but not on the hull. I use them on the surfaces that direct sunlight hits and tends to get those surfaces warm causing the print through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyot Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Thanks for the heads up Tarbaby. I figured as much. I don't think golf tees are foolish, just a lot of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlance Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Hi Dave. Things looking good mate. Interesting to see the plank fixing debate still raging. You will find screws and washers or wooden blocks will be the only way to go especially once you start side planking towards the bow. The flare means alot of thin strips to avoid snapping but they still need a hell of pressure to hold them firmly down against the first layer. No doubt you have a good block plane, they are worth there weight in gold once you start the spiling process on your veneers. One thing I found interesting was Grahams idea to use the Ashcroft method for the planking- running both layers of side veneers in the same direction, as opposed to double diagonal planking. Just hoping someone would shed some light on what the advantage of the Ashcroft method is. Your doing a great job. Shes looking great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyot Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hey Lance. Hope your catching some fish. I think the advantage of the Ashcroft method is its speed to build. Less labor involved. As you advance with the Ashcroft method, you can clean up inside and work both layers at the same time. With double diagonal planking, you must finish the first layer before adding the second. Ashcroft may not be a strong as double diagonal, but surely strong enough. If I was building a heavier boat and planned on high speed, wave jumping, spine crushing, bone shaking, teeth breaking runs offshore, I may opt for double diagonal. I'm 53 and I've left those days behind. Anyhow I think it is probably easier and you can clamp the outer layer to the inner as you go, making fastening the outer layer easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hightechmarine Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Miyot Formed the transom from 35 lbs Penske board. I Kerfed the core and backed filled with epoxy. 1 layer 1808 for now. I may get my forms up this week. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Your post on Dec 9,'12 says that you had completed the transom and includes a pic. Is item pictured today to replace that shown on 12/9/12 or to be laminated to that one? Also could you elaborate on the Penske board and why not marine ply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyot Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Fishman38, the above post is from Hightech marine. And I want to know what Penske board is as well. It looks good. I looked up Penske board. A kind of foam board, to be glassed on both sides. Hightechmarine, is your use of the Penske board to save weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Oops, sorry I missed that. I'll watch for the answer from Hightechmarine regarding Penske board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hightechmarine Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 The official name now is Baltek Airex PXc 1 1/2" thick. It is a 35lb per cubic foot foam. It is a high density foam reinforced with fiberglass strands. This transom after multiple layers of glass is bullet proof. I am building my 24 in foam. I also contacted Raptor Fasteners and they were very helpful. I am going to use their #18 brads to hold the core to the mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I think Raptor owes me a dividend after the publicity I gave them on this site! I tried the brads they sent as a sample, used my Porter Cable gun @ 90#, worked fine. Now I must figure out what length I would use most? They are a bit pricy to order a selection of sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hightechmarine Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I am not actually trying to save weight. I learned my lesson making power boats to light. They are not happy when they don't float on their lines. I have a goal weight of 2100 lbs. I am adding a 30 gallon bladder tank for water in case my math is a little off. The Penske core transom will last forever.It would be an interesting experiment to see if a Penske Core transom would work in a cold molded boat like yours. I wonder if the Raptor nails would hold long enough to get the glass on.Or I wonder if you glue and clamp a single piece in a rabbet let it set then attach the rest of the layers. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyot Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Russel, I received the 9/16 Raptor staples. I believe they will hold the planking layers together in the aft bottom flat sections. I will not use them anywhere else for planking. I don't think they will hold the planks together where they are under tension from being bent. Some careful experiments would have to be done and I am just sticking with screws. Hightechmarine, the 3/8 staples will be great for holding the fiberglass on plywood. I don't know about the Penske board, not a clue. These staples and brads will have their place in boat building. I looked for some tech or instruction on the web and found nothing that would help me. I'm not going to experiment on my build. I may do some testing on some scrap ply later to check them out further. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hightechmarine Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Dave. These staples would be great on conventional cold molding where there is a base and thin veneers are added. I am not to sure in the Ashcroft method. Lots of pressure in those pieces. The tried and true screw methods seems to be the way. Otherwise they would be doing something differant at Jarrett Bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarbaby Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Not to jump on your thread but I would like to show that I didn't use the Ashcroft method either. I feel that this has to be stronger and it is like the other boats I have built. I built it the way I know how. I will say this about these plans..... It is really fast to build because of the size of the planks you can use. There isn't a ton of shape in the hull. Too much shape and you are using rediculously thin planks. I am rethinking future builds to take some shape out of the boat and add interior volume... I look forward to your posts and seeing this boat come together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyot Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Tarbaby, I checked out your build on face book. Really good looking boat. It looks huge. How many ft. is it? Jump in any time, the more the better. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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