Wooden masts and fasteners

[makenmend]

Folks I'm just about to start the birdsmouth masts for my Core Sound 17 # 342. have to get masts done to be able to size the mast bearing then progress the decks ect.

My question is, other than screws what are the bet ways to mount hardware ? I will be blocking in area's where needed.

I may go to aluminum one day but I like the old traditional style and I'm not a racer.

Thanks in antisipation.

MM

[Hirilonde]

Cleats, winches and other hardware on the masts of Concordia 39 yawls are secured with screws. I would certainly think they would work for a Core Sound. It is important to choose a wood that holds fasteners well, use appropriate size screws and drill the proper pilot hole for the size of the screw. Any hardware that is loaded in tension like the snotter attachment could be through-bolted if necessary.

[PAR]

If using a light wood, such as white or Sitka spruce, consider bonding the fastener holes with epoxy. It's greatly improves pull out strength, which is often questionable on these species, other wise screws are fine. You may also consider a "composite" mast, combining both an upper birdsmouth section, with a single lower aluminum section. This is the way I did a CS-17. I used 2.5" T-6 lower sections (about 12' on the main) with 8' birdsmouth upper sections. The masts where stiffer than an all birdsmouth stick, didn't have the "jogs" found on the multiple aluminum section mast and they still could have had a varnished upper section, to fool folks into thinking they were all wood. I painted the whole thing, but didn't have to. Lastly the nice thing about this method (as well as birdsmouth) is I could have a nice masthead taper along the last 8' of stick, which always looks nice and saves a fair bit of weight too.

[makenmend]

Thanks for input,

Dave I take it you mean all the way through the mast for the high stress pionts ?

PAR couldn't aquire spruce so using fir, so I should make overize hole fill with thickened epoxy and fasten into that ??

[makenmend]

the composite mast is so obvious it never occurred to me!!

If not happy with the wood mast thats going to be my next approach.

[Hirilonde]

Screws are most susceptible to problems from forces that try to pull them out. Fittings like the snotter attachment are in effect trying to be pulled out in that manner. You can reinforce the wood with epoxy like Paul describes, or if necessary through bolt. I don't believe he is suggesting you over-drill the holes and fill with epoxy. I believe he is suggesting you saturate the hole with epoxy after drilling the pilot hole to make it more dense. You can then spray the fastener with a light lubricant (WD 40 or similar) and fasten before the epoxy cures. Now you can remove the screw and leave an epoxy reinforced wooden thread cut by the screw itself.

[cprinos]

I. You may also consider a "composite" mast, combining both an upper birdsmouth section, with a single lower aluminum section. This is the way I did a CS-17. I used 2.5" T-6 lower sections (about 12' on the main) with 8' birdsmouth upper sections. The masts where stiffer than an all birdsmouth stick, didn't have the "jogs" found on the multiple aluminum section mast and they still could have had a varnished upper section, to fool folks into thinking they were all wood.

How were the two joined, just a solid interior piece fitted to both sections, or was the upper created like a round tenon? How far into the aluminum lower does it need to extend?

[hokeyhydro]

Lashing. My sheet block and vang blocks are lashed to the spars. Mount small eye strap opposite the block position and tie (lash) the block around the spar and through the eye strap. Near zero load on the eye strap/screws. The hound (I think that's what it is called) where the forestay and jib halyard pulley connect is through bolted with a couple screws in sheer to keep it from wigglin. Cleats and other spar fittings screwed on. Only failure was the out haul pulley mount strap. Twice a novice crew failed to loop a line through the clew grommet and around the boom and instead of out haul tension from tack to clew the load was more vertical and the strap screws pulled. Penalty = 40 lashes less one with the main sheet tail . . .

[Travis Votaw]

I used stainless pop rivets on my main snotter becket block to attach it to the mast, but it began to get loose, so I installed two stainless band clamps around the mast and over the ends of the stainless loop (covering the rivets). The thin band clamps slid under the sail track with no problem. Been hooked up that way for a bunch of years, sailed in hard winds and still going strong.

This is on my Princess 22, PILGRIM.

[PAR]

Yes, the birdsmouth upper section is a round mortise, with a snug fit inside the aluminum tube and is glued in place. That portion of the mast was fitted with a "swallowtail" inside the first 18" of the wooden upper section. The bury inside the tube was 12", per the plans. I machined a shoulder on the upper section, so there's no step or hump from lower aluminum section to upper wooden part. This makes fitting the track a lot easier and looks clean and continuous too.

Attachments have been discussed a few times here, but aluminum can be handled with screws rivets or nut inserts (fancy rivets). I don't see the need for nutserts as how often do you need to remove these parts anyway? I had no issue with screws holding in the wooden portions, as I used as long as practical and did harden the holes with epoxy as described previously. You can bond the holes (drill over size) and I might consider this on the snotter eye strap, as it's under a fair bit of tension, but most of the rest of the rigging attachments are in shear, so just glue the fasteners in and call it a day. I wouldn't pre-coat them with wax or WD-40. They're easy to remove with a hot screw driver, if the time comes and I like the idea that they can't back out from vibration too.

[Gordy Hill]

I had sleeve luffs. I lashed a D-ring to the mast and snapped the snotter rig to it. It would fold flat when the sail was wrapped around the mast. Another real advantage was that I could ease the snotter and push the whole lashing up or down the mast to fine-tune the sprit angle/sail shape.

[Hirilonde]

I wouldn't pre-coat them with wax or WD-40. They're easy to remove with a hot screw driver, if the time comes and I like the idea that they can't back out from vibration too.

Small screws might come out easy with a hot screw driver, and I think the key word is "might" Larger screws will barely be warmed. I have always tried to account for the fact that everything on a boat will some day need to be removed for some reason or another, this is especially true for hardware. Using an adhesive bedding will resist the backing out from vibration.

I like the lashing idea for snotter attachment. Simple, strong, practical and easy to remove. The lashing could even be decorative with a little thought.

[makenmend]

Getting to the stage I needed to decide on sail type, as most of the time I'll be single handed, talked to Graham and pretty much decided on sail track for ease/safty of reducing sail. I have a hobie with sleeve luff and like the round the mast furling but can't see myself going fwd in the CS 17 to roll/furl the main in mounting winds.

Travis enjoyed checking out Pilgrim at sail OK last Oct, didn't notice the SS bands so obviously quite unobtrusive.

PAR I have a few kayaks where Iv'e mounted pad eye's ect and used silicon sealer, think I'll go back and redo those with epoxy now.

hokyhydro used lashing for the main , peak and jib halyards on my small tri, so far working great,just wanted to get opinions from folks with more knowledge/experience with rigs more substancial than my small kayaks/canoes.

MM

[Hirilonde]

I have a few kayaks where Iv'e mounted pad eye's ect and used silicon sealer, think I'll go back and redo those with epoxy now.

You might find you have problems with that. Silicon has a tendency to absorb into materials and contaminate them such that nothing sticks. Nasty, evil stuff. You may want to consider stripping the paint/varnish or whatever in those locations as part of the prep work.

[PeterP]

I don't know about nasty ,evil stuff- Dolly Parton did really well with silicone PeterP

[PAR]

Agreed on the silicone contamination thing, though I'm pretty sure Dolly's are saline.