Rough conditions

[Herschel Payne]

Hello Everyone,

I am building a Weekender and I have read many posts implying that this boat is not really up to difficult conditions.

I have never sailed a "real sailboat", however I spend alot of time sailing a double folding kayak in very rough conditions with no problems. The upwind sail rig uses amas and akas.(out riggers)

so it is very stable. ( google Feathercraft upwind sailing rigs )

My question is twofold.

Can Weekender handle extreme conditions under bare poles with just a 2HP or oars?

Has anyone tried a temporary outrigger system for deteriorating conditions?

Thank you in advance for your feedback.

[Frank Hagan]

Depending on how much you have her loaded, I think a Weekender under bare poles would be pretty stable.  she has enough freeboard, I think, to avoid swamping her in swells under 3 feet (that's a guess, and there may be a way to calculate that mathematically that I don't know about).  The flat bottom provides a lot of initial stability.  The usual problem with that is that the boat heels only a certain amount and then goes over quickly, especially without ballast.  But I doubt that you would roll over without sails up unless you're in pretty high seas, enough to swamp the boat or roll it sideways down a swell.

You could add flotation foam behind the seat backs, which puts it up relatively high, so that if you went over it would make it easier to get her righted.  Without a sail sticking to the water, it would be easier to right her than the usual drill of loosening the main sheet, gathering the sail and then trying to right her.  If the mast is up, and it is buoyant, then she won't turtle (that's the theory at least; some small boats have a tip of flotation material up on the top of the mast). 

Most of this is just conjecture on my part.  One of the designers might chime in; they have a more expert opinion based on the industry standards.  I invite them to tear apart my assumptions! 

[PAR]

A kayak can be literally man handled in tough going, but a Weekender in the same conditions, under bare poles is nearly helpless with oars and not much better with 2 HP. This assumes your comments of "very rough and extreme conditions", which this boat isn't remotely capable of tolerating. Even in the hands of a very capable skipper, eventually you're going to get "caught up" and overwhelmed. In a non-self righting boat, that doesn't have a self draining cockpit you'll be asking to test the range of an EPIRB before too long. It boils down to fatigue, because you can only be so vigilant, before a major mistake causes you to broach or otherwise end up in the drink. Weekender isn't the type of boat that can "take care of herself".

[Andrew_Butchart]

For my Weekender's maiden launch I was out in 20+ knots of wind and attempted to row under bare poles.  The boat would "not" row to windward at all, I couln't point the bow into the wind at all.  I was on an inland lake (almost a large pond to some people) and there was little chop to cause additional problems.

The jib was dowsed but still attached which might have been a factor as well as the fact that I was having problems with my rudder not wanting to go down.

With that said, once sailing there were a few times I was over-powered even with a reefed main.  Any time I had real problems, we just let go of the sheets and the boat popped up and behaved itself.  I even put my 250lbs up on the foredeck to haul the jib down and the boat stayed a lot more steady than you would think an unbalasted boat of that size would have.

[Pepe]

Hello

I have 2 hp Yamaha and I once get gought in storm. Or atleast it was storm in my opinion.

I have to motor upwind and the motor just managet to push the boat against waves. In that lake waves are steep and the boat

[Herschel Payne]

Thank you for all of your comments.

What do you think about the idea of putting amas/akas ( outriggers ) on the Weekender for times when an open crossing is necessary or possible rough conditions would develop. Would this not effectively turn Weekender into a stable trimaran?

Thank you again, Herschel

[Andrew_Butchart]

Aren't most trimaran's stable upside down too 

If you "were" wanting to put the equivalent of water wings on the vessel, you'd be better off doing what they do to some canoes and apply floatation as strips over the gunwales - sort of "anti-ballast".

[PAR]

You could have some sort of detachable amas, but the resulting boat would be a rather burdened tri and you'd dramatically increase rigging loads. In other words, it's usually not wise to try and make a silk purse of a sow's ear.

[Herschel Payne]

Thank you for your feedback, I'm inclined to agree with you. What I have decided to do is use the Weekender for good conditions and save the rough stuff for my kayak.

Much of my paddle/sail has been done on Lake Superior. The water is cold and conditions change quickly, so I will not feel too comfortable with Weekender.

However I will be looking out for another sailboat to build that will have self righting qualities.

[wkisting]

Herschel,

I think you're drawing the right conclusions. I've done a ton of sea kayaking on Superior, and I am very familiar with how remarkably quick the weather can change. At the risk of broaching controversy about the meaning of "seaworthy," I think the cold, unpredictable waters of Superior call for a self-righting, self-draining design if you intend to do a lot of sailing there, and if you intend to venture far from the shore.

My wife and I built a Pocket Cruiser (also a Stevenson design, but only 14'). The largest waves we encountered were on Lake Pepin on the Mississippi, when we were caught in 4' rollers and a very strong headwind. It was quite an experience (waves blasting me in the face like a firehose as the bow pounded down into the trough of each wave), largely because of the flat bottom. The water filled the cockpit several inches in a very short time as we crossed the lake, but we were okay because we had a strong motor. With oars or sails, we would have been in quite a fix. Ironically, my wife slept through it in the cabin, which still blows my mind. She would've been scared deeply if she had been awake for it, feeling the boat rear up and down like a bucking bronco. But the danger was nowhere near as bad because the Mississippi, unlike Superior, is plenty warm. I would be scared for you to get caught in such conditions on Superior. Yet I've routinely been in 5' and 6' waves on Superior in a kayak, and the danger is comparatively small if you have solid rolling skills and a good wetsuit or drysuit.

The Weekender is a nice boat, but like our Pocket Cruiser, I think it is ideal for relatively protected waters (possibly the Apostle Islands area of Superior, if you stick to the inner islands). For anything else on Superior, I would choose a design with more bulilt-in flotation and a vee-entry at the bow.

Wes

[Herschel Payne]

Thanks for the note Wes, I think I've already found my next project. The Spray 22 designed by Bruce Roberts. A very nice looking boat, almost as pretty as Weekender.

[ChrisObee]

Thanks for the note Wes, I think I've already found my next project. The Spray 22 designed by Bruce Roberts. A very nice looking boat, almost as pretty as Weekender.

That's quite the upgrade project. 

[capt jake]

Ever so briefly, I have had my WE out in 2 small craft advisories.  Those are the advisories that tell you NOT to go out. One of the outings was with a rather large fellow that served well as rail meat.  He had a grin plastered on his face that you couldn't remove!  I had a cramped hand and finger indentations in the rub rail from trying top keep the boat upright (at least my hands thought that).  Never went over, but I carefully placed said rai8l meat.

One other time was a little hair raising.  With Joel from Gig Harbor; again we never went over, but had the rails in the water a few times.  Just point to he wind!   You can only let out so much sail until it hits the shrouds anyway.

I thoroughly enjoyed sailing my WE, but honestly, I want something a bit larger and with more space if I am going to continue sailing. Sailing in the Puget Sound can have the challenges of very rapid changing conditions and there were a few times where I simply doused the sails and motored in.  I felt much safer that way.

I am contemplating a sailing dinghy though.  One that is easily righted.  By a wetsuit and then just plain let r rip!

[Herschel Payne]

Thanks Jake,

A wetsuit is part of my standard equipment. I always have it on hand since I spend alot of time in northern waters. (Ontario, Canada) I'll be Paddling in North Carolina this Jan, Feb and March and I use it almost full time.

The conclusion I've come to with Weekender is: Dress for Immersion.

[capt jake]

Done right, you shouldn't go over in a WE, but it could easily be done.