Still Trying to Decide Which Boat

[grj]

I am still trying to decide which boat to build. I purchased Spindrift 12 plans, but am considering the CS15 and CS17. Part of my dilemma is that I would like to buy a small outboard for it also for fishing. I have a family of 4 and fishing in the Spindrift would be difficult on a good day. Recalling some things that I read, it seems each of these boats would take a small outboard or even a trolling motor, so that kind of cancels out.

I think I read that the CS15 can be sailed with a single sail in a 3rd mast step. Is this correct? Seems like that could be helpful for a beginning sailor and maybe safer to take kids out until the captain gets some seasoning.

How would you rate the build complexity of these 3 boats?

All input appreciated.

Thanks,

gary

[JeffM]

Any CS can reduce sail area either by traditional reefing, or (if the option is built in) by furling the main and moving the mizzen to a middle step.  For my rig with its luff sleeve sails that furl and reef around the masts, I prefer moving masts.  Can you really take 4 fishing in a S12?

[John Burritt]

Ditto Jeff's question about 4 fishing in an S12.  The construction techniques for a CS are the same as a spindrift (or very similar) - the parts are bigger and a bit more of them.  For 4 people, I think I'd talk to Graham about a CS kit - all precut.  Maybe you can trade in the S12 plans.

[Ken_Potts]

  I've not been on a Spindrift 12 or a CS15 but if I were to take 4 people out regularly I'd build the CS17 (or the 20).  I singlehand my 17 all the time and I can fit four adults nicely.

  I've only built the 17 but I don't think there will be much (if any) difference in the difficulty between the 3 boats (if built from scratch).

  Like John said - Talk to Graham about the CS17 kit.  I'm the kind of person who would prefer building from scratch rather than plans and that's the way I built mine but CS17 kits didn't exist when I built my boat.  If I built one today I would definitely buy the kit (despite my scratch-build leanings) and I'd buy it before Graham realizes how underpriced they are

[Hirilonde]

I row my Spindrift 9 with 4 people out to my Renegade's mooring all the time.  I feel quite safe doing so.  I have sailed it with 3 and found it more than claustrophobic, although we did not capsize.  I sail it with 2 all the time in the harbors I visit while cruising.  I wish it were bigger at these times, but I think a 9 footer is the best choice for a tender for my 27 foot cruiser. A Spindrift 12 is definitely bigger, but I am not so comfortable with the thought of 4 people swinging fiberglass whips with barbed hooks on the end in such close proximity.  Choosing a boat is a very personal decision.  But I would recommend something in the 15-20 foot range if you want to share your boating with 3 friends and/or family and still be on speaking terms at the end of the experience.  I definitely recommend a B&B design what ever your choice.

[Ken_Potts]

My little 2HP Honda doesn't have a reverse gear - It spins 360 degrees in the mount and the handle flips over to operate in reverse.  I can hit "reverse" without ever changing the throttle setting (I don't have to look for the lever, I just spin the motor).

It won't plane but it will get to weather when the wind is blowing too hard to sail under a single sail (with only me onboard).  I've never really wished I had more horsepower but every single time I lift the motor onto or off of the transom I'm grateful that it weighs 28 lbs.

I've been out for 9 hours without sailing at all and I've never run through my 1 gallon gas can (the tank on the Honda is 1/4 gallon so it won't last more than a couple of hours).

[grj]

Thanks to everyone for posting. I agree the S12 is probably not big enough for fishing with more than 2 people. That thought is one of the reasons for polling folks here. There is a lot of experience on this forum with these boats and everyone's willingness to input thoughts is greatly appreciated.

Just to verify a comment made by JeffM, do all CSs have the option to build the Reefing (3rd) Step to sail with 1 sail?

Ken_Potts said he removes his 2hp outboard. Is removing the outboard the preferred way or can the outboard be left on the back all of the time? Does anyone use a trolling motor on a CS?

I will certainly call Carla and Graham about the CS17 kit. I have been leaning toward the CS17 all weekend. The kit gives it an extra boost.

For those wondering what the main purpose of the boat for me is, it is sailing. However, my kids love fishing so I thought maybe one of Graham's designs could be used for fishing though principally designed for sailing.

Thanks again,

Gary

[Hirilonde]

For those wondering what the main purpose of the boat for me is, it is sailing. However, my kids love fishing so I thought maybe one of Graham's designs could be used for fishing though principally designed for sailing.

I think you will find the CS17 fits that bill just fine, probably even exceptionally well.  And who knows, maybe your kids will discover they like sailing better once they feel their boat lift up on a plane and the spray is flying.  Stranger things have been known to happen. 

[SUKIE]

In answer to your question regarding use of a trolling motor. Yes, I use a MinnKota 40 lb thrust trolling motor on my CS17. It pushes it along just fine in smooth water, but I've never tried it when it's rough (rough means wind, and wind means "set the sails!!") I also have a set of oars which work fine, just didn't want to have to depend on them to take me over 5 miles home when the wind gives out.

I was attracted to the electric motor because 1)anything gasoline powered will not work for me when I really want it to, and 2)I just wanted to keep it simple

Good luck making your decision - I'd vote for the CS17 myself (although I may be just a bit bias)

And, "YES!!" to the kit.

[Dale Niemann]

I think the CS 17 will satisfy your needs very well.  I have the third mast position and have sailed "Lively" in high winds using it. 

If you have never sailed before, your  idea of sailing initially using a single sail in the third position may be a good way to start.  However, in light winds I feel you will be disappointed and will move to the two sail configuration quickly.

I launched "Lively" with sleeve sails and quickly became disappointed with the inability to reef the sails so I switched to sails with tracks & two reef points and have been very happy with this arrangement.  As a result of this experience, my opinion is now that I would not build the third mast position and would use sails with tracks and reefing points.  In your case, you could start your sailing experience with the sails reefed and then work up to the full sail.

The big problem I found with sleeve sails and switching to the third position in high winds was exactly that.  When you are out in open water sailing and the winds really increase you are at risk until you can sail to a protected area in order to move one of the masts to the third position.  I only did that once and I was convinced that is not a very workable situation.  In my opinion, the third mast position only works if you know the winds are going to be very high and then you just rig up using the third position from the start.  Of course we all know then the winds die.

My two cents worth.

Dale

[Richard Whitney CS#70]

Hi Gary

I built and sailed a CS 17 for about three years (currently building a Lapwing).  Like Dale I changed over from sleeve sails to sail track for the reefing (cheaper to do it right first time)

I have sailed with one mast in the third mast step, been out under full sail both with and without outboard (which I always left on the stern - just have to watch out for the mizzen sheet getting caught) and left the sails and masts on shore and headed out with the outboard to go fishing.  It is a very versatile boat. Like some others I went for the 17 vs 20 because it is a bit easier to rig and launch single hand.  You can not go wrong with one of these boats.

[grj]

A hearty thanks for all the replies. I talked with Graham today about the CS17 kit and was very encouraged. I plan to talk it over with the wife tonight. Because of the versatility of the boat I think she will go for it with only a little hesitation.

Thanks,

gary

[Ken_Potts]

Congratulations on the near-decision, Gary!  Post pictures when you get going

[Doug Cameron]

I put in the third mast position on my CS 20, but have not used it because the sails each have two reefs.  I did use the third hole for a mast crutch so I could row through the Harlow Canal.

I have never had a motor on it, but I reinforced one side of the transom to take one.  I believe that it would have been too thin otherwise.

The CS 17 sounds like the best bet for you.  When I'm rigging the CS20 solo I often think I would rather have the 17.

[grj]

Those that use trolling motors, where and how do you store your battery(ies)?

gary

[JeffM]

Being a belt-and-suspenders man, I have one under each side of the thwart.  I am always a little unsure how much I can run the motor before shortening battery life too much.  So if i think one is getting a little low, I have another.  Also, I can run the nav lights and motor at the same time.  I slide a battery aft when I want to use the motor, having been warned how much dc current is wasted by long wire runs.  The thwart is very near the center of floatation in my estimation.  A piece of pool noodle (which doubles as a fender) wedged atop each battery keeps them in place even in a knockdown, and adds much to the boat's reserve stability.  Rigged as I am, the boat is nearly self-righting from a knockdown.

[SUKIE]

Gary,

Congratulations on your (almost) decision. I too built my CS17 from Graham's kit and was impressed with the relative ease of construction considering that I have only very basic carpentry skills. As for the battery, I use a deep cell marine battery which is very heavy and one I don't wish to move around while under way. Therefore, its fastened in the lazarette with heavy nylon strapping and the power wire runs under the hatch cover to the motor. I would like to install a plug so I can leave the hatch fastened when using the motor (that plug costs about $40!) A good spring project - add it to the list!

OK, so order that boat soon so you can have it ready for spring!!

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Sukie is too modest of her skills.

I looked over her teardrop trailer which would suggest a pretty good command of woodworking tools and methods.

[SUKIE]

Well Ray, you're flattering me, but don't forget what a wonderful filler epoxy is  :grin:

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Lot's of brightwork on that trailer Sukie.

You can't fudge brightwork.

You are too modest.