CS 17 #218

[SUKIE]

Hello everyone. I'm making progress:  have flipped the boat rightside up again and installed about 1/2 the deck framing. (I'm very happy that my joints will be hidden by the deck!) I'd love to post some photos and will try later.

A basic woodworking question, what's the best way to cut the mast holes so they don't look like a woodchuck cut them? I have an adjustable saw jig but it only expands to 2 1/2 inches and I need it a tad bigger.

I'd love any advice you have, thanks.

[PAR]

Harbor Freight sells a hole saw kit (several blades and an arbor) for around $5. Most well equipped hardware stores sell a cheap hole cutting kit too. Now these aren't the bets holes saws, but for a couple of holes in plywood . . .

[SUKIE]

Hey, Hooray, I've finished glueing up one mast part and it came out great! I spent much more time researching and worrying about it than it took to cut out the parts, taper, and glue. Tonite I'll glue up the other section.

Once again I'm aware of my ignorance regarding trailers. I have a used trailer that's in good shape, but I need to adjust it to fit the CS17 and I'm at a loss. How much weight should be put on the center rollers, and how much on the side boards? The brackets holding the boards are shot so I'm building new ones from pressure treated 2x6s, and the boards themselves will be 2x4s covered with carpeting. Also, do I need a specific type of carpeting to facilitate the sliding of launching and retrieving? I've seen something in catalogs called slicks which go on top of those boards and are supposed to be slippery. Are these necessary?

Thanks Gentlemen!

[Ken_Potts]

   Congrats on the masts!

   As far as the trailer goes, the weight should be taken mostly on the keel rollers.  The bunks are there mostly to keep the boat from falling over.

   My bunks have the sort of outdoor carpet type stuff you see on lots of trailers and I do okay pushing the boat off the trailer and winching it back aboard without submerging any part of the trailer except the tires.  It used to require a good bit of work to overcome the friction when I had those black rollers but when those wore out (quickly) I bought some of the transparent orange ones from West Marine.  I can't remember the material right now but I'll look it up and let you know.  Once I put the new rollers on it was a whole different world at the dock.

   The trailer I bought was pretty adjustable and I fiddled with it for a while to get it right.  The axle is U-bolted to the frame so I can move it around.  My current (good) configuration came about by moving the pole that holds the winch and the bow chock as far forward as was practical (it doesn't run into my tailgate when I turn sharply) and then moving the axle forward until I could lift the tongue of the trailer by hand.  It's heavy but I can lift it without fear of damaging myself (that sort-of satisfies the 10% of gross on the tongue).

   With the weight distributed somewhat correctly the trailer handles fine from 1 mph on up to 75 mph.  By moving the boat as far forward as possible then adjusting the axle to get the weight distribution correct I find that I can make sharper turns at tight ramps compared to my earlier setups.

   I've though about swapping the carpet on the bunks for UHMW but I don't think I'd put anything on top of the carpet to make it slide better.  My reasoning is that the carpet will compress under a load and if I've countersunk some screws to mount some UHMW strips they might gouge the hull when the hull presses the UHMW down and compresses the carpet.  The only real reason I haven't stripped the carpet off and added some nice slidey material is that my setup works pretty well and I don't feel like going to the extra cost and effort of switching (lazy and cheap).  If I was starting from bare wood I'd at least look into something UHMW-like but I wouldn't install it over the top of carpet.

   Now that I've proof-read this post I see that none of the ideas I've put forth are original - I think I learned every one of those details on this forum.  Thanks Frank - The check's in the mail.  ;D

[sscoville]

the weight should be taken mostly on the keel rollers.  The bunks are there mostly to keep the boat from falling over.

Are you sure about this?  I don't know if the same applies to sailboats, but a guy who sold my dad a new trailer recently for a Boston Whaler said that all trailers nowadays are drive on (this obviously only applies to power boats) and that the roller are just to keep the boat from bumping on the trailer frame.  On this new trailer, the boat rests entirely on the bunks.  But again, it's strictly a power boat.

[John Burritt]

The keel is the strongest/stiffest longitudinal member in the boat and will support the most weight without distorting the bottom.  Unless the bunks are directly under the longitudinal bulkheads, the boat resting on them will eventually hog the bottom.  Setting the bunks up to guide the boat onto the trailer is one thing, letting the weight of the boat rest on them is something else.  Obviously, adjust all the keel rollers to share the load.

[Ken_Potts]

If left to my own devices I would have put more weight on the bunks but taking the majority of the weight on the keel rollers is a recommendation from Graham.  He's been doing this a lot longer than I have so I went with that 

[SUKIE]

OK, I'm stuck. Time for a consultation.

I'm getting ready to cut and install the coaming, and have read many posting about the materials, steaming/boiling water treatments, height, etc.  After doing the research, I'm still baffled by one statement made by Ray. Ray, you said you like to keep the width of the coaming consistent through the entire length of the cockpit, for aesthetic reasons. So, that must mean that as it approaches the stern, it hangs down past the carlins by an inch or so. Am I understanding you correctly?

I have some 4mm okume left over from a kayak project, so I'll be using 2 layers of that for the curves. Will it look bad to try to use 6mm for the straight runs, taking up the difference in thickness at the scarfs?

(I'm looking forward to meeting you and your boat at the Small Reach Regatta Ray. Perhaps I can buy you a beer!? Smuttynose!)

Thanks all.  Sukie

[Hirilonde]

I have some 4mm okume left over from a kayak project, so I'll be using 2 layers of that for the curves. Will it look bad to try to use 6mm for the straight runs, taking up the difference in thickness at the scarfs?

You might be able to bend the 4mm ply to the curves.  You might be able to scarf it to the 6mm.  But in fairing the surfaces to each other you will undoubtedly break through the outer ply of one or the other or both which won't look very good if you are varnishing.

[wkisting]

I agree with Hirlonde's concern about bright finishing the coaming... if you plan to do that, I would use a consistent thickness of ply. In our case, we used the 1/4" ply, then "doubled" it on the outside of the coaming with 1/4" strips of mahogany above deck.

Also, I believe you are understanding Ray's comment about a consistently thick/wide coaming correctly. Our coaming indeed hangs down below the carlins an inch or so (maybe more, but I'm not at home to measure), allowing the coaming to remain the same width all the way around the cockpit... which we think looks very nice.

A capped piece of PVC with a small (1/4 - 1/2") relief hole drilled in the cap, poised over a teapot can make a very nice makeshift steam tube. We used it for steaming the mahogany, but if you get a large diameter piece of PVC, you might be able to use it for the wider ply coaming. (We did the hot towels and boiling water trick for the ply pieces, but broke a few in the process... steaming is more reliable).

[SUKIE]

Dave and Wes, thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought about the difference in thickness showing up as you mentioned Dave, but that is the kind of mistake I'm liable to make. So, I think I have enough of the 4 mm to do the whole thing with 2 layers, I'll stagger the joints so I don't think I'll need to scarf. And, I'll keep the height of coaming consistent throughout, 3" above the deck forward, 2" aft.

Thanks again guys.

Sukie

[Ken_Potts]

I varied the amount of coaming above the deck the way you describe, Sukie, but I kept the height above deck at the sides down enough that it's not too uncomfortable to sit on the side decks (closer to an inch than two inches).

[wkisting]

I'm echoing Ken, but I agree that the coaming height should be closer to 1" high above the deck. Any higher, and you'll find that the coaming digs into the bottoms of your thighs when you sit on the rail. Even at about 1" height (mine is consistently 1" high all the way around), I added a riser block to the side rails to make a seat that would be flush with the top of the coaming, to cancel out the pressure on legs. I think 3" tall is way too high, as the coaming only needs to deflect deckwater from running directly into the cockpit. Anything over 1/2" tall should do that adequately. The rest of the water you may get splashing over the bow will spray in aggressively, so no coaming will keep it all out.

[Edit to add: We made our coaming pieces generously oversized in height, molded and dry-fitted them to the boat, then cut them down closer to the finished size. Even then, we deliberately left them oversized by 1/4" or so, and then used some careful measuring to establish a clean pencil line that we cut to later with a jig saw and (finally) block plane to establish a nice, smooth-flowing, consistent height all the way around, top and bottom. You can see a bit of the oversized fitting process on my webpage: http://www.roguepaddler.com/cs20o.htm but these pieces were subsequently cut down, of course to establish a coaming height of about 1" above deck, and approx. 3" - 4" height overall.]