Spindrift 10 quints

[Charlie Jones]

If I found a delamination or a bubble in ANY sheet of BS1088 ply, I'd haul it directly back where I got it and get a new sheet. Immediately.

That is NOT supposed to happen. Interior voids and delams are NOT something I've ever seen in BS1088 Okume. And I've cut up many many sheets of it. In fact I've ever only seen ONE void and that was less than 1/16th wide.

Take it back and scream if needed, but get a new sheet.

[Greg Luckett]

Charlie,

I was just looking at some end shots of their panels and it looks like just 3 layers to me.  I am not sure.

[Greg Luckett]

Well, I think there are 5 layers, now that I looked at the scarfing pictures, and the panels look a lot like Okume to me.  I wonder what they have grade wise?

[Charlie Jones]

Dunno, but all the latest stuff I've bought was all Shellmarine, Lloyds certified, BS1088. I'd sure as the devil not stand still for voids or de-laminations. To NOT have those is why I buy the stuff.

[Greg Luckett]

Dunno, but all the latest stuff I've bought was all Shellmarine, Lloyds certified, BS1088. I'd sure as the devil not stand still for voids or de-laminations. To NOT have those is why I buy the stuff.

Amen, brother!

Maybe they have the lower grade, like BS 6566 Okoume?  I have never used that and have no idea if it has problems, but it is less expensive.

[Peter HK]

There was an interesting article about plywoods, written by a local importer, in the recent Australian Amateur Boatbuilder magazine. Apparently BS1088 (British Standard) is only enforceable in the UK and a number of Asian manufacturers stamp their inferior ply with BS1088 when it does not meet the standard, knowing there is no legal redress.

The implication was to be sure of the supplier.

Peter HK

[Greg Luckett]

Based on what I have seen folks from over that way do to products they are supposed to be building to agreed upon specifications, cheating is the norm, self enforcement is a pipe dream of the companies here expecting them to be honest.

Thanks for the warning about the plywood, and Charlie is right on the money right too!

[brucee]

Yes, the plywood is 5 mil, 5 ply Okoume BS1088 from Noah

[Greg Luckett]

Bruce, did you mean 6mm instead of 5mm?

[psvansickle]

Bruce:  I sounds like you and your gang are having an exciting project.  If you have not yet found them there are at least a couple of good marine wood suppliers a lot closer to your neck of the woods.  You might try Edensaw Woods in Port Townsend, WA or Emerson Hardwoods in Seattle, WA.  They both have great selection of hard and soft woods and marine plywoods.  Both provide great service and prices aren't bad either.  I live in north Idaho and I find it worth my time and mileage to go get my materials from either of them.

Peter

[brucee]

Yes, I am using 5 mil okoume plywood.  I was looking for a bit of weight saving as I am planning to use 6 oz fibreglass cloth on the bottom outside and propapbly inside as well, and maybe 4 oz on the sides outside.  The 5 mil okoume is 5 ply and weight 16 lbs per 4x8 sheet.  By comparison, the 6 mil okoume weighs 20 lbs per 4x8 sheet.  I ruled out 4 mil as it is only 3 ply though many kayaks are built with 4 mil.  I emailed Graham before I discovered this forum and he felt my idea of the fibreglass sandwich construction was sound, but would not be stiffer than 6 mil plywood.  He also said the boat was stiffer than needed with the exception of maybe the aft bottom.  I was looking for a bit of toughness as we have lots of rocky shores and barnacle beaches along our coastline.  I also am really impressed with the durability of my cedar strip canoe and kayak, both which are entirely encased in fibreglass inside and out, and still quite light.  (The 16 ft canoe is 50 lbs, the 16.5 ft kayak 40 lbs)  I

[Greg Luckett]

Bruce,

Your planning with the 5mm and the glassing sounds good to me too.  I will be watching with much interest on how your Spindrifts turn out and the adventures you all will have with them too.  I hope you do not mind the questions.  Most of mine are to help me understand things better.  This forum has been an outstanding source of learning and sharing for me, and once in a while I can share something too.  I am delighted that you are sharing so much about your projects.

Greg.

[brucee]

After too many weeks absent, the first Spindrift finally took shape last night. The butterfly joints were done weeks ago and felt strong.

Opening up the butterfly to make it look like a boat came together really easily with no creaks or groans.  The ropes I hung from the ceiling helped support things during the unfolding.

Unfortunately it looks like the stress was too much for the 10 ounce fibreglass tape as the cloth fibres on the outside of one of the butterfly joints have torn.  The inside of the failed joint doesn

[Peter HK]

Unfortunately it looks like the stress was too much for the 10 ounce fibreglass tape as the cloth fibres on the outside of one of the butterfly joints have torn.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Two layers of 10oz tape?

I say this because I'm using 12 oz biaxial tape on my CS17- with the extra fibres and better fibre orientation and knitted rather than woven contruction it's probably more than 50% stronger than woven 10oz. When I unfolded the butterfly the glass joints were absolutely rigid- I was more concerned about the ply.

Peter HK

[Ken_Potts]

  Sorry to hear about the trouble.  When I folded up my CS17 I had one of the tape joints fail.  I already had everything wired and was tightening the wires when the joint let go with a heartbreaking gunshot.

  Before removing all the wires I decided to try fixing it in place.  I drilled a hole in a little (an inch or two square?) piece of plywood then cut a block (1"x2"x12").  The long block went on the iside of the joint and I used the little piece of wood as a washer on the outside of the wood.  I ran a screw through the "washer", then right through the joint and into the long block which was oriented ACROSS the joint.  I drew it up tight and repaired the glass joint.

  I probably should have unfolded the boat before repairing the joint like you did but I'm happy with the result.

  I know others have taken the precaution of screwing a block across the joint on the inside (before folding) and they've had good results so I think you're on the right track.  If the tape on the inside looks okay you probably don't need to worry about that side.  It's in compression mostly anyway so the fibers shouldn't see a lot of stress.

  Keep us updated on your progress...

[brucee]

The summer was a write-off in the boat-building department, but I did get some keel-boat sailing done and lots of stuff fixed up around the house.  Now it's time to get going in the shop before the weather gets too cold.

After my butterfly joint broke, I took the grinder to the fibreglass and carefully ground it down to the plywood. It was easier than I thought.  I re-fibreglassed the butterfly and screwed a stick across the joint to keep it from bending. I was concerned about loose wings of plywood stressing the butterfly joints so I hooked up an old curtain rod on the ceiling and hung the plywood wings with ropes so they always had some support.  Here's the opening sequence:

[brucee]

And with everything going so well I forgot about the camera and soon a bunch of plywood pieces began to look like a hull!  The transom was already glued up, so on it went.  The wiring goes so quickly it's really quite an amazing concept.

[brucee]

We are getting some progress, having committed one evening per wintery week to working on the boats.  It's amazing how you forget about your fingers after they have been cold for a while.

Here is a photo of #3 of the Spindrift quints.  Numbers 1 and 2 are in the backgrount.  This is at the start of the evening

[brucee]

More clamps!  More clamps!  I need more clamps!

The guys didn't like the PVC clamps I had made so they raided every clamp they could find in the shop and brought along a few of their own.  They even found a couple of vice grips that worked well.

#4 and #5 of the Spindrift quints are soon to be at the butterfly stage.  Then things will get crowded!