Back to Closing Up Some of The Motor Well...

[Travis Votaw]

I finally got around to cutting and fitting a couple of pieces of okumie ply to partially cover the bottom of Pilgrim's motor well. It ends up kind of keyhole shaped, fitting the motor shaft pretty tight and opening up aft to allow the motor to tilt through the pieces.

I carried the aft opening all the way to the transom cutout which leaves a "shelf" about 3" wide on each side.

I installed the two pieces with 5200 caulk and it seems like it will hold ok.

I made a plug to fit over the hole when the motor is tilted up. The plug will slide down sideways beside the tilted motor until it gets to the new pieces, then tilt back horizontal.

I didn't quite have the final finish on the plug, but just had to take the boat out for a trial run The motor tilted up and down without any bind or interference from the bottom pieces. We motored a lot quiter too ;D, because the water did not boil back against the motor transom, but instead came up through the keyhole and built up against the transom slightly above the cutout in the transom, which did create some noise. HOWEVER, when I slid in the plug and tilted the motor down to hold it (This was temporary, I'll install some dogs to hold it down. The motor did not exert enough force to hold the plug completely shut.), there was blessed quiet 8) 8). Man, I am pumped ;D. Can't hardly wait to get the plug finished for proper installation.

I'll take some pictures of the whole thing once I get it finished.

[Greg Luckett]

Travis,

Was this in the plan set or something thought of later?  I like the reducing noise effect!!!  I am looking forward to seeing the pics.

Thanks  ,

Greg.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Travis,

Very nice picture of Pilgrim!  Looks like you are having fun.

[Charlie Jones]

Not in the plans Greg. Something Travis and I have talked about since he first began sailing her though.

If I ever build another for anyone, I'll do something similar up front.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

The P22 is high on my future build list.  I would probably mount the motor off the transom with a bracket.  Seems to solve a lot of the problems.  Then use the sheeting method like Brent used on his CS20 to keep the mizzen sheet from fouling on the outboard.  Am I missing something here?

[Charlie Jones]

Yep- I think you'd not be happy with the motor on the transom, on that boat. The well works very well, it's just a bit noisy when sailing.

[Travis Votaw]

I would keep the well if I was having the boat built again.  Easy access to the motor sells it for me.  Also, no having to lift the motor mount; just tilt that baby up.  The cockpit is plenty big enough that I don't miss the space that the well takes up, though it is considerable.

I've never motored in any really rough conditions. But it would have to be pretty bad in order to lift the prop out when motoring.  I have taken water in over the motor well, though, when the boat was tied to a bulkhead alongside a launching ramp.  I started out in the lee of the land and was in good shape for the thunderstorm until it blew over us and came back 180 degrees.  The short, steep swells out of Matagorda Bay (remember those, Charlie ;D?) came up through the well and over the motor transom into the cockpit.  No danger of filling up, though, because it ran out the scuppers as fast as it came in.  Also, the motor transom is enough lower than the cockpit seats/bridge deck that there would never be any danger of filling up the cockpit.  If it was going to get that bad, I ain't going to be out there

There is some disadvantage in real shallow water.  The motor will run in about 14" of water, but you won't hardly have enough rudder in the water for the prop wash to work on.  The well is too tight to turn the motor to steer the boat, so if you know you're coming into shallow water, say to land on the beach, you just have to realize you don't have very good rudder control at that point.  This has not been much of a problem for me yet, and I do like to sail off the beaches, which are pretty shallow where I sail.

Charlie has it right; when you get around to cutting out the bottom of the motor well, mount the motor and while tilting it down against the bottom, mark and cut the bottom out just enough for the motor to go through.

You can cut a bigger hole, but it's harder to stop it up ;D

[Travis Votaw]

Nope. I understood you perfectly, Ray.  I was actually supporting your position (I thought ).  And I agree with all you said.

[Howard]

So If I understand this right, the recommended solution to the motor well is to have a "tear drop" shaped cutout for the prop and lower unit to pass through, with the part next to the lower unit just wide enough for the motor to rotate a bit to give you some steerage with the motor. Save the cutout to make a plug to close off the opening when the motor is up (Plug A), and also, make a second plug (Plug the same size, but one that fits around the motor's lower unit when the motor is down and running.

For short hops, or sailing in light air/crowded conditions when you may want instant access to the motor, you leave both plugs out. For longer sailing trips, install Plug A, or for motoring longer distances, use Plug B. If you can live with the drag for a short while, even sail with the motor down and plugged.

Is it possible to hinge one or both plugs, sort of like bomb doors, so they are very easy to drop into place? Could they be made to drop into place past the fully up motor?

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Travis,

Its kinda off topic here...but what is the fastest you have had pilgrum clocked under sail?  I understand that the Princess 22 is no slouch.

[Dale Niemann]

Transom hung vs Transom Bracket hung?

Several years ago my nephew was sailing his Chrysler 26 ft sailboat off Door County, WI.  It has the motor mounted on center on the transom (it has a drop through rudder).  A bad storm came up.  He and another sailboat were both motor sailing it was so bad.  The other boat had his motor on a bracket on the transom.  They lost site of each other.  The next time my nephew saw the other boat it did not have a motor or bracket on the transom.  My nephew was very thankful his motor was mounted to a solid transom. 

Therefore, I would conclude that a motor in a well protected well would even be better.

Dale

[Jim McLaren]

For a while I've been wondering about the feasibility of changing the motor well, sort of like John Welsford does on his Penguin (and some other boats).  I've been thinking about the alternative plan Graham posted on this site last year which has a shorter cockpit.  In it Graham says he probably would eliminate the motor well.  If you moved the motor well off to the side and swung the motor up through the transom you might save some space in the cockpit.  I don't know if structurally this would be a good idea and you would not be able to close the well off the way Travis does.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

I have a set of Penguin plans.  The motor well is offset and the outboard does tilt through the transom.  Might be a good idea for the princess.

[Travis Votaw]

Here are some pics of the completed well closure.  All I have left to do is to paint the plug.  I left it natural for contrast in the pictures.

You can see the aluminum tabs with ply spacers under them.  The tabs project out for enough that the plug can slip under them by about 1/4".

The semi-circle slots on each side at the rear of the plug fit over an aluminum projection that prevents the plug from slipping out of place backwards as long as the turn knobs are engaged.  This apparatus is pretty sturdy, though not water tight.

The plug is inserted by turning it sideways and sliding it down the side of the well, turning it back horizontal when it reaches the bottom.  Set it on the bottom and slide it forward to catch under the tabs, then turn the knobs.  Viola! she is closed!

[Steve Day]

That's pretty slick, Travis. I like the idea and the implementation. Good Show!

Steve

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Going back to Jim's suggestion about offsetting the motor well and pushing it back to tilt through the transom.  I am not a naval architect, so maybe one can chime in...but would the cuttout have a less negative effect on performance if the cuttout was offset?  This would allow for clean flow over the rudder.  Seems like a good compromise to a bracket.  Also would allow for the keel batten to go all the way to the transom.  I kinda like the looks of the outboard sticking out the back of the boat too.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

I think you misunderstood me Travis.  My point is that transom hung outboards are much more likely to ventilate than motorwell hung outboards.

The motorwell places the outboard closer to the fore aft pivot point and also lower in the water making it less likely to ventilate.

Transom hung brackets with outboards will tend to ventilate when you walk forward on the deck as the boat trims down in the front and up aft.

Also in bigger seas, the transom hung vcan ventilate with passing waves.

A longer shaft outboard will solve the problem of cavitation.  I west from a short to a long shaft on my CS20.  It has a bracket off the transom.  I used to have all the problems that Ray describes...walking to the front and having the motor come out of the water, etc..  But no more!  I also went from an old 2 cycle to a new Yamaha 4 stroke.  What a difference!!!!  Them "Yammer's" are great motors!!!  That T-8 High Thrust would make a great motor for the Princess.  Low RPM and high thrust.  They are the standard for a trolling motor now for fishing boats.  Quiet, powerful and great fuel economy.  Much lighter than the Honda too.

[Howard]

Having seen the solution Travis has used, I've got another question. Does the plug offer a performance boost too or is the primary benefit less noise? If just the latter, could that not also be accomplished with a well cover on the top, fitted around the motor? Just enough slack to let the motor tilt up and down and a little side to side to aid steerage. That way, the motor is always available, and the plug is up and out of the water.

[Travis Votaw]

This could probably be done without too much difficulty.  And it would also reduce the motor noise while running.  Even if you made a motor cover, I would still reduce the size of the originial motor cut-out to only what was necessary to drop the motor through.

The two permanent pieces I added to reduce the size of the cut-out also reduce the noise a lot when sailing even when the plug is not installed because they limit the area adjacent to the motor transom where water can "flow back" against the motor transom. (Is this a run-on sentence, or what ?;D)  Take another look at the pic above taken of the bottom of the boat with plug in place and you can see the fairly small opening at the forward end of the well opening  where the motor shaft fits through.

I would say that fairing up the bottom of the well with the plug in place may make a miniscule difference in hull speed ( Max speed a couple of days ago in Lake Hefner was 8.5mph, single reefed), but it really helps to reduce the water noise to where it is about like it would be with no hole in the well at all.

You have raised an interesting point, though, about using a motor cover.  I think I'll mock one up using foam board just to see how it would work.  I like the idea of not having the open hole around the motor.  I've already lost a flashlight through it along with misc other small stuff that kids have placed on the lazarette area.  I've been too lazy to make any rails around this area to prevent stuff from rolling or sliding off :-[.

In my case, I'd have to have the cover be hinged or easily removable due to the way the hatch covers operate on the laz lockers.  Anyway, it's definitely worth looking into.

[John Burritt]

Travis

I'm doing an overhaul on a Princess 22 which includes a motor change.  I notice in the last picture that you have a Yamaha 8 hp.  What is the shaft length?  Did you have to deviate from the plans for the transom to make the motor fit?  It appears you have plenty of clearance under the tilted motor and the tiller.  Is the tiller/rudder as per plan?  Has this been a problem?  Your ideas for closing in the well look great.  Thanks for the info.