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Jan Williamson
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I should get my plans tomorrow or the next day, so I got a material list emailed from Stevenson. I think doug fir would be a good choice for everything but the deck trim and grab rails. Does anyone have any hints for other kinds of wood other than sitka spruce. (since I priced it at $8.00/BF)

I picked up some doug fir CVG. But the lumber guy only had aboiut half of what I needed Spendy!!!! and I got a college discount because I take a woodworking class here in Yreka. It averaged $3.50 /BF. Anyway my question is can the rub rails be scarfed? How about the keel? It is hard to find 14 and 16ft.

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Jan, there are very nice teak grab handles already made for sale at many boat supply places. I got mine from boatersworld.com for something like $18 each, cheap! West has 'em, too.

I used 16' long 5/4 pressure treated decking for my rubrails. It comes in 5/4 x 6, so it has to be ripped. Get a couple helpers to guide it through the saw, and to help install it. The more hands, the better.

The keel can be made up of shorter pieces, just stagger the seams so no two butts coincide, and glue up the whole mess. Voila, messing about. :wink:

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Hi Jan! Welcome to messing-about.com!

Yep, you can scarf rub rails! We even put up a short article on it at http://www.messing-about.com/weekender/scarf.htm!

I used phillipine mahogany, which was about the price you paid for the CVG douglas fir. But in 1 x 2s, its not such a dramatic cost! You could also use the fir for that if you plan to paint it. I actually like the look of douglas fir with just a few coats of Helmsman Spar Varnish on it; it has a nice "golden oak" type of tone.

We also have a "plans FAQ" at http://www.messing-about.com/weekender/wkFAQ.htm that can help in the middle of the night when there's no one on the forum! But don't hesitate to ask away in here, because we don't have a rule against asking a question that's "in the FAQ" (don't you hate it when you see a forum filled with "read the FAQ" responses?)

(And, because we're international, there's almost ALWAYS someone on the forums willing to help!)

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If you haven't bought your plywood yet, consider Okumee. It costs more than AC plywood, but not much more than marine fir. the advantages I found were it is wonderfully to work with, you get just a little more (it's metric), you can finish some bright (like inside the cabin), and you can eliminate the fiberglassing on the top side because there's no fir checking.

Saving the fiberglass work on the top side will save much time and probably enough dollars to make up the difference of the plywood costs. You might even get in the water a week or so earlier.

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If you do scarf the wood for the rails, make sure you get an excellent glue joint over the entire scarfed surface. I would suggest a scarf in which the ends of the joining pieces do not form feather edges. The name of the specific scarf joint escapes me at the moment. :roll:

When it comes time to fasten the rails, I would certainly put a screw through the scarf, too.

As to plywood, you might look at luaun plywood if cost is an issue. Luaun is not subject to the checking that fir ply is. It also finishes bright quite nicely. My cabin- and forehatch covers are framed in African mahogany but the panels are Lauan. The lazerette hatch is just a piece of 3/8" Luaun with the back ply planed off to make it flex. It's held in place with four small bungee cords. The deck and cabin roof are of the same plywood.

Julie%20K.jpg

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Thanks, I would love to use the higher quaility ply, but since this is my first boatbuilding adventure, I am trying to keep the cost down. I am going to try to make it work with ABX. My husband is in the plywood making business, and can get me some made up. I think mahogany trim will be nice though. I will check the FAQ from now on though, Frank :oops:

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Guest Anonymous

Julie%20K.jpg

Hmmm.. the more I see those squared off cabins the more I start to like them over the standard rounded cabin... looks slighly more modern and probably gives a little more headroom as well. Hmmm...

-tom

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I was surfing arond the net, and came upon this hardness chart for wood. This chart and a couple of others that I found rates Southern Yellow Pine as being harder than Doug Fir. If this is the case, then why would one not want to use S. Yellow Pine for the keel above Doug Fir. I suspect the rot factor but not sure. Can you please shed some light

I have bold faced the lumber mentioned for building.

The Janka (or side) hardness test measures the force required to embed a .444 inch steel ball to half its diameter in wood. This is one of the best measures of the ability of wood species to withstand denting and wear. It is also a good indicator of how hard a species is to saw or nail.

Douglas Fir 660

So. Yellow Pine (loblolly & short leaf) 690

So. Yellow Pine (longleaf) 870

Black Cherry 950

Teak 1000

Black Walnut 1010

Heart Pine 1225

Yellow Birch 1260

Red Oak (Northern) 1290

American Beech 1300

Ash 1320

White Oak 1360

Australian Cypress 1375

Hard maple 1450

Wenge 1630

African Pedauk 1725

Hickory/Pecan 1820

Purpleheart 1860

Jarrah 1910

Merbau 1925

Santos Mahogany 2200

Mesquite 2345

Brazilian Cherry 2350

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Yes, it seems to be pretty soft. I just spoke with Lou at Eden Saw Lumber in Port Townsend here in Washington, and he said that Honduras Mahogany is over a $1 cheaper than Doug Fir and quite a bit harder, as well as resisting rot a little better. I was told that Hemlock is OK for building, but not very rot resistant at all. Lou was telling me that because he get a good discount on shipping, and tries to give a good price, he can normally under bid the locals in the California area. They plane and saw to order as well. The Hondural Mahogany normally comes in wide widths and longer stock as well, so no worries to get any length you may want.

After shopping around the lumber stores in this area, I haven't been able to find as cheap a price. Captn Jake knows of a discount place in the local area, but that would not do you any good, and one never knows what they may have if I understand him correctly.

If anyone out there knows a reason why this Hondurs Mahogany would not be good to use, please let me know, as Lou recommends it.

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Wow; I had no idea the Yellow Pine everyone talks about is harder than Fir. I know that the pine one gets out here in California is much softer than the fir. That was before the Hemlock waste-wood that home centers are selling now. Does anyone know the hardness for Bubinga and Cocobolo? I've tried to do some small stuff with those two woods and had trouble with it being too hard to work. Especially the Cocobolo.

Todd Schmitt made his Weeknder with all Phillipine Mahogany. It was too soft, I thought, but it turned out fine. It's on the very low end of usable though. Honduran Mahog used to be pretty expensive. Either Fir has gone way up or they're over-cutting their forests in Honduras.

Mike

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Wow, a Honduran Mahogany keel? If you do that, you should finish it bright. Be very careful and neat with screw layout and set them all so you can bung the holes.

As far as mahoganys go, check out the latest American Woodworker (well, the one that just came, anyway). there is an article describing the various mahoganys and their characteristics including rot resistance. I wish I had the magazine in front of me instead of at home in the "library".

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Wow; I had no idea the Yellow Pine everyone talks about is harder than Fir. I know that the pine one gets out here in California is much softer than the fir. That was before the Hemlock waste-wood that home centers are selling now. Does anyone know the hardness for Bubinga and Cocobolo? I've tried to do some small stuff with those two woods and had trouble with it being too hard to work. Especially the Cocobolo.

Todd Schmitt made his Weeknder with all Phillipine Mahogany. It was too soft' date=' I thought, but it turned out fine. It's on the very low end of usable though. Honduran Mahog used to be pretty expensive. Either Fir has gone way up or they're over-cutting their forests in Honduras.

Mike[/quote']

The pine we know as the really lightweight stuff, on the east coast is called spruce pine, and is shipped from the northwest areas of the country. It is very white and few knots, except for pin knots. It is very soft to hammer into it. Our Southern Yellow Pine, is YELLOW and the grain is very coarse. It is very hard and will splinter at the ends, fi you don't predrill it, most of the time. Phillipine Mahogany, which the grain is pretty uniform and and straighter than Honduras, but is pulp wood in comparison to Honduras Mahogany. It is also, washed out red, compared to the nasty deep red by contrast for the Honduras stuff. When cutting it by a table saw, it will burn your nose, sometimes.

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shipped from the northwest areas of the country
Sounds like what we call White Pine, but it is chock full of knots!!!! Very sodt ant not of much use for anything!! :(

Personally, I don't like Phillipine Mohagany for anything! It is very porous and doesn't finish well, but then again, I have only tried it in furniture. I simply LOVE Honduran!!! :) :) Honduran is AWESOME stuff!! :) Here again, from a finish and workability standpoint!!!

To each their own!! :) : :)

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Fir is 7.? at Eden Saw, and the Honduran Mahog was more than a dollar less. That would make it still twice the price than the discount store in Puyallup. I need the name again of that place John.

That would put the Honduran Mahog at the top of the list as far as wood to use for the keel. I think I would try and finish it bright, if I could figure out how to keep from using so many nails like the plans suggest.

What do you think?

Also Dave, where were you talking about concerning the screws in the keel?

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Southern yellow pine is used for flooring in the south. Its hard enough. And its been a traditional boat building wood there for centuries! In the northeast, there is hard pine and red pine, and it too is a different variety than the sugar pine / white pine we find here in the west. Its used for spars.

Boatbuilding has a regional flavor to it, because wood is expensive to ship around the country (especially in the days of olde!) So in the south, you'll find old wooden boats with southern yellow pine, in the northeast, you'll find the hard pines, and in the pacific northwest, you'll find douglas fir. The locals used the best local wood they could find.

For a good local wood to use for boatbuilding, ask a lumberyard what they recommend for wooden stair treds outside. Its not foolproof, because sometimes they recommend cedar or redwood, both of which are really too soft. But for outdoor stair treds here in California, the lumberyards will recommend douglas fir. In the south, they'll recommend southern yellow pine.

Also, there's a big difference between "hemlock" and "hem-fir". Hem-fir is usually graded "SPF" ... look for the stamp. SPF stands for "spruce pine fir" and really means they can throw anything they want into the pile as long as its wood and white. There is also a "hemlock fir" grade of wood which is just awful to use. Won't take fasteners, splits, warps and twists. I won't even use it for studs. The "hemlock" people are using for house trim is not the same wood. I've seen it, and its more on the line of poplar or douglas fir in terms of workability.

Mike can confirm this, but I think the Stevensons listed douglas fir because it was a readily available construction grade wood when they wrote the plans. If you have an alternate wood, like southern yellow pine, hard pine, red pine, hemlock, poplar, white oak, etc., it would be a shame to pay extra for douglas fir.

I mention white oak in there because I know in some areas of the country, you can get it for about $1 a bf. Here, I'd pay $5 to $8 a bf

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Gaylen it is Building Materials Outlet; 253-845-5577. The Honduran they have may need some planing to take out the chatter. If you want to, come on over and I will turn you loose with the planer for a few hours!:) :) :)

By all means tell them I sent you! I have sent a bunch of people there and they have yet to recognize me. :( :( Bummer for the discounts. :) :) :)

I WILL let you use the planer; I can't state that I will be able to assist in the whole process, but it it is quite easy! :) I have a Bamboo floor to install!! :):)

Call if you want!! :) :)

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Honduran and the planer...sounds like a good book title.

I will call tomorrow. Some plans I had for the morning went South, so will have some time. One of the elders of our church has a portable saw mill, and a planer. I am assuming his is the big "whole board at a time" kind. Would that be better? I am wondering if the wood one would get is almost planed, and one would not want to take off too much with a big rig like his.

I really appreciate your kindess and the offer. I will be in contact.

Does one wear a kamona tool belt when installing a bamboo floor? Why does that make me think of wind chimes...

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