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William

No 13-14ft options?

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There is no 18 or 19 either, and the only 16 is a very different and difficult build.  I bet Graham makes a point of designing to the greatest demand lengths and can't justify every increment.

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Eventually you'll end up with every length from 8' to 80', if you get enough commissions or just love to do spec work. I have a similar "hole" in my portfolio, though from 12' - 14'. I think this is partly because an 11' boat is just a solo sailor at best and two kids at most., while a 15' boat is a 2 man boat with some guests if desired or a handful of kids. Designing a 1.5 person boat, doesn't have a lot of logic behind it, unless you have a special needs commission, like a big guy wanting a small boat, so you jack the volume to compensate.

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There is no reason why there is no 14 footer I have one in the Jessy range. I have gotten a lot of requests once the boat is in the 14' range to max out the length that can be built from two sheets of ply long. As ply comes in 8 foot lengths, you allow for a scarf and some curvature and suddenly you at around 15'.

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Thanks for the replies. 

My interest is in a boat that is still light enough to launch singlehandedly with just a dolly, easy solo capsize recovery but long enough to allow for the use of a mizzen. An off-centre board to make space for solo camp-cruising.

Please, Santa, I've been a good boy!

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8 hours ago, William said:

My interest is in a boat that is still light enough to launch singlehandedly with just a dolly, easy solo capsize recovery but long enough to allow for the use of a mizzen. An off-centre board to make space for solo camp-cruising.

 

That sounds like a CS 15 to me.  Well, depending on what exactly you mean by launch with a dolly, not sure I understand.  Would you even have a trailer? If I used even one of the Spindrifts a lot, I would have it on a trailer, or at least have a trailer.  So much about using a boat is having it be convenient to use.  PAR's people capacity guidelines are good.  As you can see, it takes a 15" boat to really get comfortable as an adult and if you want guests.  As a retired backpacker I realize that camping can mean a lot of things to different people, so I will leave that part of the equation alone.  So many compromises to consider in making this decision..........................

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A dolly is simply an A-frame with small wheels used to move boats around on the hard or launch by hand. Many of the available launching spots around here are not suitable for launching straight off a trailer. What I should have said, and was trying to imply, was a weight limit of about 170lbs.

It is precisely for convenience's sake that I have not already built a CS15 - it is simply too heavy. 

 

I currently sail a Miracle, the 13ft bigger sister of the Mirror. It is about as heavy a boat as I would consider for a quick sail and it has taken my brother and I, both big lads, on an epic weekend adventure. It was indeed a bit cramped, but that was purely because the boat was not designed with storage space in mind. Had there been hatches in the fore-deck and side tanks we would have had no problem with space. We obviously did not try to sleep aboard. We also had the "opportunity" to practice righting the boat after a capsize and turning turtle a mile from shore in very choppy conditions. 

I am in complete agreement on the trailer. The Miracle lives on a trailer with an integral dolly which is very convenient. You can just make out the dolly wheel behind the trailer registration plate in the pic attached. I have since built another dolly for my 13ft Gypsy to fit the same trailer. Swapping boats is a matter of wheeling one off and rolling the other one on. There is a winch to assist but I would only need it if loading on a steep ramp.

Being a light boat, the trailer itself need not be all that bulky. Keeping the combined weight low is another important thing for me due to my yard layout - I need to maneuver the whole lot down an alley by hand before I can hitch it to the car.

DSC_2296s.JPG

DSC_2322.JPG

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William,

 

You have made some compelling and sound points.

 

We are pretty busy right now but if you can lay out your needs I will see if I can do something for you. I recently updated the BRS15  plans and moved the centerboard and trunk to the side tank to get it out of the way.

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5 hours ago, Designer said:

William,

 

You have made some compelling and sound points.

 

We are pretty busy right now but if you can lay out your needs I will see if I can do something for you. I recently updated the BRS15  plans and moved the centerboard and trunk to the side tank to get it out of the way.

 

Thank you Graham,

I first have to build and sail my Spindrift 10 before I will know what all my needs need to be!

But to get the concept ball rolling, some desirable features would include:

- quick to rig

- easy to get under bridges (perhaps tabernacles for the masts, which might also assist in quick rigging).

- shallow water sailing

- move well under oars, scull or electric trolling motor

- reasonably dry in rough conditions

- easy to anchor for fishing

- able to punch through small surf

- self draining cockpit

 

I have been doodling away on CAD for a while, starting with a model of the Spindrift 10. It is primarily just to get an idea of proportions, and to see if if the design strikes a chord anywhere deep down. You can see some SCAMP DNA creep through in the small cuddy and extra panel on the topsides with a bit of tumblehome. 

I increased the flare on the original topside panel before trimming down the sheer line and then adding the top panel. The final sheer line is a good deal higher than the original and it sweeps up proportionally more towards the stem and stern.

 

The length was scaled up to just over 13ft and the beam adjusted to give the same length/beam ratio as the CS15. It is only marginally beamier than the Spindrift 12 and a fair bit narrower than the Miracle, although the difference in waterline beam will be less noticeable.

Draft was scaled in proportion to beam to leave deadrise unchanged. Total displacement, based on original waterline, scaled to 450lb.

 

As drawn the main sail has about 65sqft and the mizzen 22. With a traveller on the cuddy roof for the mainsheet, the cockpit can be left almost completely clutter-free. A traveller on the transom should allow the mizzen to be placed well aft without the need for a boomkin. Sail sizes and placement have not been subjected to any performance, stability or balance evaluation.

 

 

CS 4.0-1.JPG

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A few more questions:

How many people can comfortably sail at once in a CS-15, assuming that at some point everyone needs to sit on the same side?

 

Does the cat-ketch rig allow more usable cockpit space than a sloop configuration? 

 

Would there be any preference between the ketch rig and a yawl in the 13-14ft range? 

At a glance it looks like a ketch might not leave enough room for the helmsman behind the mizzen mast while at the same time complicating tiller operation. 

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1 hour ago, William said:

How many people can comfortably sail at once in a CS-15, assuming that at some point everyone needs to sit on the same side?

 I sail a Lapwing, 15'-8" and I don't think there really is a circumstance where I would need all 4 on the same side.  3 and 1 is the same as 2 and 0, and that along with being able to reef covers it all.  Well, up to as much wind as you want to be out in.  But all that said I consider both the CS 15 and Lapwing to be 4 person boats.  After that it gets too cozy, though it can be pushed.  The size of the people matters too.

Your drawing appears to put the mizzen much further aft than Graham's designs.  That may be why you see an issue with room for the helm.

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What percentage of the sail area does the CS carry in the main? I would like to scale my drawing's sail areas to similar proportions and see what the layout options present.

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What are the factors that would typically swing a choice between the Core Sound 15 and 17?

 

Space/capacity? Performance?

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FWIW..........When I was a 14 year old kid, I was buying a 15' canoe (saved a long time working on farms!) and a mentor mentioned to me that the length extension always comes from the middle, not the ends. In other words, the 17' canoe gets 2 feet right where it offers the most advantage in payload (most buoyant middle) and speed (water line length). So I bought a 17' which was the right move. I'm 56 and still have it!

 

And I'll add canoes usually have similar beams (15 vs. 17) but in a sailboat, usually some beam is given up. So it seems like a pretty good penalty to go smaller.  I think sorting this all out is critical, as I think the extra work constructing say a Spindrift 9 vs a Spindrift 12 is minimal, but the results are way different. I'd seriously think about what your sailing day looks like 90% of the time and build that. If it's mostly 2 of you and occasionally 4, build a boat that can sail 2 and suck with 4. But if it's sailing 4 all the time than build a boat that swallows 4 easily.

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