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Everything posted by Paul356
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It's so great to read Graham's notes. I had an additional thought about my upwind day vs the Scamp. I finally just dropped the sails and kicked on the 2.5. Suzuki outboard. The 17 went dead upwind like a champ, and really a pretty dry ride. I was amazed at how easy the progress was. I don't want js thinking he'll get stuck downwind on a blustery day. I also had a chance to try Graham's tips later, on an equally blustery day, but without the waves. Worked swell. One thing I learned was not to try to point the usual 45 or 50 degrees off the wind, 55 or so is fine and still gets you up wind.
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I've sailed a couple of trips in company with a Scamp. I agree the Scamp is quite slow compared to the CS. It is also fairly complicated to build, especially compared to the CS boats. A couple of folks from a large a reputable kit-making concern that will otherwise go unnamed stopped by our volunteer shop and saw the Scamp that is underconstruction there, and has been for quite some time. One of them said, "All that work, and still all you have is a Scamp." I agree (and agree with similar comments above). I, too, have been attracted by videos of some of the other Welsford boats but those, too, seem like bigger contrustion projects than a CS. But I think all the added features probably make them very seaworthy. Attributes of the Scamp, at least as I understand them from the companion mentioned above: It has the little cuddy that helps make the cockpit into a snug one-person sleeping area, if you have right tent. It will chug on through anything, albeit at it's own pace. I have seen it recover from a capsize, and it was very quick and essentially dry, done by one person. A capsize in a CS is a different matter, speaking unfortunately from experience. The one time the Scamp really clobbered me was in a pretty fresh breeze, probably sustained >20 with higher gusts, and waves 1-2 feet, maybe a bit higher. My friend in the Scamp put in a reef and went plugging to windward without another care. I could not get to wind! I had put double reefs in both sails, and wasn't sailing the 17 very well, I decided later (too much luffing, not enough holding course). I think I would have been better off with a single-reefed mizzen in that breeze, sheeted in sort of half way. I talked to Graham later and got some tips. I think I will do much better next time. But that Scamp kept on plugging. My friend in the Scamp is looking at a Longsteps as his next build, so he's sold on the Scamp ideas, but would like something with a longer waterline and more speed. Wow, that came outlonger than I expected.
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I built my 17 from Graham's kit and echo everything Padre says.
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I've done a lot of day sailing in my 17 (MkI) and also a lot of sail camping, fitted out with a dodger and lately a rear gizmo that makes a tent from the mizzen mast forward. I think it's great for both. I unexpectedly had 8 people aboard one day for daysailing, but it worked great. Great ballast on a breezy day. More freuqently day sail with two ro three adults and some kids aboard. Sailed part of the Everglades Challenge with a boat full of gear and one other guy aboard. We were probably pretty heavy but, again, good ballast for a breezy run and I felt like we were moving well. When I'm aboard by myself, it's a neat sailing dinghy and I need to remind myself to reef early. Never sailed a 15, so nothing to compare there, I'm afraid. But I'm a big fan of a 17 for lots of various uses.
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the 20 is emminently buildable, but it won't happen overnight. and, perhaps not needed, but a clarifying note on don silsbee's note: Alan's 2d video shows construction of a CS 20 Mark III, with cabin and water ballast. You might be looking at that, but if you're looking at the 20' Mark 1, open boat, not water ballast, construction is quite a bit more straightforward. The 15-footer is much more like the 20' Mark 1. Techniques are the same, tho, generally, in both videos.
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Batteries, Winter, & Nebraska Cold
Paul356 replied to Jonathan M. Cohn's topic in B & B Yachts Forum
I've been leaving mine in the boat all winter, lead wires disconnected, ever since I saw the boatyard was storing the batteries it removed in an unheated area of the shed. Seems fine. I fully charge before leaving them. -
So you sit on the centerboard trunk then, I guess?
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Don, I ended up putting a second set of oar sockets forward. I sit on the cuddy top and row from there. Not the best, but it gets the job done, I guess. I find I want to extend the oars out too far, so need to fight that urge. I need to take shorter, less strenuous strokes. I made oars 10.5 feet long. My crew handled the rudder. Rowing from the cuddy top worked well enough to get through an adverse tide in the Everglades Challenge a couple years ago, but it is tiring. If anything got in the way, it was my life jacket, as I'd be pulling in and then dropping hands to make the recovery. My hands got caught in the front of the jacket. I did try rowing from the mizzen seat once, to see what it was like. I left the masts on shore and headed out rowing from the middle seat. I think I felt it was kind of low, as I remember propping myself up on a cushion. My verdict was that it rowed like a 400 pound boat. That is, not that swell. I had left the outboard on, and people kept stopping by, assuming I had engine trouble and was using the oars as Plan B. I guess no one rows in Wisconsin any more. Lately I've been using a canoe paddle from the side seat near the stern. In calmer water it works great. (Lock the rudder.) I haven't tried it against a full blown headwind. All in all, I have decided the best option is the outboard, even for a short haul. (I aso found the outboard works far better for steering with the rudder blade pulled up out of the water.) Maybe I should try rowing from a standup position, standing just in front of the mizzen and using the front oar sockets. But the last few trips, I haven't even brought the oars along. They are hard to store. --pb
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The wind was very light, and I knew I could go on a broad reach and/or ddw for a long leg. I used the tiller lock a fair bit while I got things set up. I had all 3 sails on one side for a bit, but the greatest effect was wing on wing, main by the Lee, staysail on the opposite side from the main. Gybing no fun, since as you know, the staysail has to come all the way down and have the tack move across, as well as the halyard. But at those speeds, it worked out. Added half a knot or more. Fun effort on a perfect day for trying it.
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help on closing gaps in stitch and glue
Paul356 replied to chris stevens's topic in B & B Yachts Forum
Similar to what you did, but when I had a similar issue Graham said, just push up on it from the bottom. Duh. Worked great. -
Had it made by the skilled canvas workers at the Harken shop here. I was able to stand with them and mock up several possibilities and take advantage of their good ideas.
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Ah, but I didn't let the varnish go.
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I epoxied all my wood, both ply and dimension. Then I varnished it all. It looks very nice and holds up well. I put on a new coat of varnish every year or two on the decks and transom, but not that often on the seats. I do a very light light sanding first, with 220 or 320. It doesn't bother me to do that varnishing, but that's me. I feel that it holds up better than it would with just varnish. I did this also on one of my big boats and had the same result: looked good and held up better than just varnish.
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Here's a screen shot of the sailing I did, including some day sailing and a random trip around one of the islands for fun. Not sure how much it helps, but fwiw. The little tents are the three camps we stayed at, and "VNP Ramp" is where we launched. I forgot to make a track for the first little hop out of the ramp to R61. For scale, it's about 7 miles from R61 to R20. We had planned to go farther east, but didn't due to predicted strong, then light, westerlies and concerns about getting back to the ramp. I'm doing a writeup for SCA soon, with more deail. Rainy Lake is a great place. p.s. Always good to hear from you.
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cant figure out how to add a couple of videos, so the stills will do. wish you all could have been there. i have another boat/volunteer gig during the messabout, so mess on without me. hope to see you all next year.
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Some of the other "Legends" and I were sail camping up in Rainy Lake in Voyagers National Park last week, along the Minnesota/Canada border near Internatioal Falls. I had my CS 17. A few fotos follow. Moored in the lee of a rock wall in anticipation of a big blow that night. Sunset in Lost Bay My dodger and tent arrangement I even got the mizzen staysail up, singlehanded.
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Pretty neat, eh?!
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I'm not sure if I'm following your pix, exactly, but if you have your downhauls and reef lines anchored on one side of the mast and bring them back to be pulled tight on the other (port) side, that should work. then you can walk forward on stbd side deck. That's more or less what I have, just with the sides flipped. I added a little tent to my dodger this winter. I should have taken a picture. I'm hoping to be able to adjust anchor from cockpit, after setting anchor before I put up the canvas. Heading north for sail camping on Friday. Stay tuned.
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Jeff, I rolled the boat out of the garage and stepped the mast, for other stuff. This photo shows how far the sail track extends near the deck on the main mast. A few inches.
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A little sandpaper or emory paper along the under edge of the track, I think. Doesn't take much.
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Hull glassing process clarification for a newbie
Paul356 replied to TooManyHobbies's topic in B & B Yachts Forum
1. I would still apply the fillets and tapes outside, then sand the tapes fair into the plywood. That's my thought, others may differ. But my thought is that there is o reason to skimp in strength and integrity at this point. 2. Put the fiberglass cloth on bare wood, then unthickened epoxy on top and squegee or roll for a smoth attachment. The cloth will turn clear as you adhere it to the wood, rather magically. If you put a layer of epoxy on the wood first, you run the risk of the cloth floating and not adhering to the wood. Once the initial coat is on (top of) the cloth, you apply additional 1 or 2 or 3 filler coats on top, as needed, to fill the weave and end up with a smooth surface on your cloth. If you apply it hot (lower layer stiff but not fully cured), you can move pretty quickly. If you are going to paint, you can add some thickner to the fill coats to help close the weave. That's a trick I learned from Alan at B&B. Thickened epoxy may interfere with the clearness if you plan to finish the bottom bright. Main point, tho: first layer of cloth goes on to bare wood, then coat and fill from the top. -
Ha, Don, yes, in part because I was darn through putting fairleads on the deck, saw that big hole and thought, why not? But, right, only one of those is tight at at time. And, Jeff, my main sail track ends a few (couple?) inches above the deck, which allows room for the sail stop as well. There is a length measurement shown on the plans, from black line at top of mast to black line at the bottom, the bottom black line being the extent to which the down haul can be used to pull the sail tight under the "rules," as if anyone is watching. But the black line gives a nice taught luff. The bottom black line marking on the main mast gives you room above the deck. I leave the main slides on the track when furling as shown in the pictures above. Also leave the excess in the track when reefing.
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I If you bring all the lines back, you shouldn't need to go forward while sailing. Or, bring them all back on one side and go forward, if needed, on the other. But it's not as much an impediment as you might think. Below, first, is a picture of my cleat bank for the forward lines at the cockpit edge. From left to right they are downhaul (red speckle), first reef (blue), second reef (red), halyard (blue speckle) and snotter (blue w/ white). Below that is a picture of the (dusty, messy) foredeck with the same lines led forward to the mast step. So, it's not much clutter and it's a big improvement.
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A different approach: I had a 3.5 inch pedestal compass on the big boat that couldn't be read from where I sat while steering, so I replaced it. I took that old compass and made a box for it and that's what I use on the CS 17 now. I just put the box on the floor and lay it next to the keel. It works fine, and in this boat I can see it well. When I don't need it, I put the cover on and the box goes back in the locker. Like others, I had trouble finding a permanent mounting spot that I liked. Photo below. I also put the GPS on a mobile mount, which is a 6-or-so-inch diameter circle of 1.5" wood with non-skid drawer liner on the bottom and the GPS cradle on the top. I move it around so I can see it from wherever I sit and wherever the sun isn't shining. This replaced the thwart-mounted cradle, which provided visible GPS only about 50% of the time. This is for the small Garmin 78sc handheld. That said, sometimes I just keep the Garmin in the pocket on my vest and pull it out as needed.
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On my CS 17, I put the sprits and sails up and out of the way the same as Graham shows on Carlita. Alternately, sometimes I just take the mizzen off the track and put the furled sail and sprit on the rear deck or hanging out over the transom. I have the main sheet and the two furling lines running back to the cockpit so I can raise and lower the main or reef it from the cockpit. This is not "single-line" reefing, as that would be a bit too much to rig each time I set the boat up for day sailing, but is what I'd call slab reefing, meaning separate reef lines at the fore and aft ends of the sail. I do, as hinted above, have a hook on each of the forward reef lines that go into the cringles on the main so I can reef down the main to first or second reef from the cockpit. I then reef up the clew from the back, which I can also do from the cockpit. And yes, the main comes down if the halyard is released, much as Alan describes. I have the stainless slides and track, so it comes down pretty easily.