Miters or lamination's?

[Kudzu]

Question for the newer boat builders and woodworkers. Working on the outriggers for the rowing unit and I am trying to decide which is more newbie friendly. Laminating wings or stick building that requires some decent fitting miters? Neither one is necessarily simple but I am thinking that most new builders will not have a lot of clamps and laminating them will require a fair amount of thme. More than most will have

My first idea for the outriggers was simple to build but man, it was UGLY!! So I backed up and working on a couple of new ideas. I may laminate up a set for myself but I do want a simpler option that most people could build. I was looking at something along these lines. They will have to have some bracing but you get the idea.

[Hirilonde]

Miter joints are the most useless joint ever invented. Structurally they are probably the worst joint made by man. The only time I use them if for mouldings where it is necessary to carry the shape around a corner. I use lap, half lap, staggered multiple laps and others for all other applications.

Won't having them come up out of the hull before going out be in the way of the recovery part of the rowing stroke? Now that I picture it, and think about the action of rowing, and the limited places to attach structure to a SoF frame, I think you are in for a challenge designing the outriggers. Can the 2 outriggers be connected to each other as a means of support without getting in the way of sitting or rowing? I have a funny feeling that a laminated structure may be required. Without a detailed cross-section I can't really offer any more on this.

[Kudzu]

I just tried my idea and found that assembly was a royal pain the rear! A newbie wouldn't stand a chance of building this the way I was thinking. I am scrapping this idea before I go any further. This would be harder than laminating I think.

Dave, the outriggers will be attached to the rowing unit, not the frame. Put the stresses on the most rigid part.

[DURRETTD]

I agree with Hirionde. Lamination is almost certainly the best way to go.

Without lamination, the outriggers would probably have to extend across both gunwales, angled from front-to-back or back-to-front, to keep them out of the way of the oars and your knuckles. Where are you going to sit while your wife rows?

A few thoughts for those who are afraid of laminating components: Yes, laminating is scary! The idea of building a mold, cutting thin strips, working with finicky glues, and finishing the thing that emerges is too much for most of us to deal with. Like so much of life - marriage, the first day of school, raw oysters, and escargo are good examples - once you try it, it's not as bad as it appeared.

Take it slow. Don't set an unrealistic time line for the project.

Rip your wood strips or hire a pro to rip them for you. You'll get about as much sawdust as solid wood, but wood is cheap and sawdust makes great mulch.

Don't worry about a full frame for the lamination. Draw the desired curves, screw some blocks to a sheet of plywood, clamp your strips to the blocks, then move and add blocks as needed to force the strips into shape.

Clamp the laminations in place before you try to glue them. Moisten the strips or use a heat gun to make bending the strips easier. Clamp the strips in place without glue and let them set for a few days before you glue, and practice placing and clamping the laminations a couple of times before you try to glue them. Label the laminations, so you don't have to rearrange them when you start gluing.

Use lots and lots of waxed paper and visqueen.

Make a bunch of cheap PVC pipe clamps. Use blocks screwed to the plywood base with wedges or shims. Buy or borrow a few C-clamps and F-clamps.

Get everything in place before you start gluing. If you're using epoxy, put on your vinyl gloves (the heavy, reusable kind, not the one-size-fits-none), mix the glue, spread it, clamp it, wipe off the excess glue where possible, clean up your tools and scrap, wipe your gloves clean, remove your gloves, and forget it for 24 hours.

If Epoxy scares you or causes an allergic reaction, use Titebond III.

Grind off the excess glue with a heavy file or a belt sander.

If the finished product is ugly, paint it and ignore any derisive comments.

Dan

[Kudzu]

There was more to the outrigger than just a mitered joint that I didn't show. I am very aware that a simple miter joint would never hold.

[chris.lewis.425]

Finger joints or elongated box joints http://woodgears.ca/box_joint/fingerjoint.html might work in this application.

Chris in Seattle

[Hirilonde]

Alden Rowing sells combination seat/outrigger systems made of aluminum in the $600-$800 range that look like they would install into your design Jeff. I realize that this is not what you are looking for, but what ever you design you might want to consider these an alternative offering. I would be intrigued by the challenge of building a laminated outrigger, but not so sure all, or even most of your customers would. I also do not think the added expense of a purchased unit makes your boat overly expensive, especially when compared to buying finished craft. Anyway, it is another option.

[Kudzu]

This boat is a personal project. I did not go into it with the idea of selling it or plans for it. It's a platform for experimentation and R&D. So laminating the outriggers isn't really a problem for me. I did have in mind a use for the rowing unit in Sweetbriar if I ever get around to building it, so I wanted to try to keep it as simple to build as possible because I will probably offer it for sale. I just don't see a simple way to make a strong outrigger other than laminating it. With a bigger open boat such as Sweetbriar the outriggers could be some short lamination that attach the the Gunwales.

I have a 2-3 sheets of 3mm Okuome in the shop that I have no use for, so I am thinking I might rip and use if for the outriggers. It bends really well and varnishes nice. Maybe after i get it built I will come up with another idea down the road.

[woodman]

Have fun Jeff...you like challenges don't you....looks like you saved the hardest part for the end....

[Kudzu]

Here is my first idea. Functional but ugly, at least to me. I liked this TILL I put it in the boat. I think it would be OK in a boat like Sweetbriar because of the high side. It would hide the risers that I find so ugly. Functionally it looks good. Of course once on the water I may find I need to alter the clearances some. Might need more of an angle on the boomerang.

Once in the boat I really didn't like the look. The low gunwales expose to much of the frame work.

Thing is, I keep coming back to this idea because it is relatively easy to build and it works (I assume). So, I started thinking and came up with this idea. Replacing the uprights with these curved units. Add's a little more foot clearance and hopefully improves the looks.. Still not sure I really like the looks but I think it is an improvement.

I am tempted to finish this up and just use it for now so I can move on to skinning and building the oars and getting this thing on the water. As I said, I think it would be fine in a boat with taller gunwales and I can always build the laminated outriggers and replace this down the road.

[Hirilonde]

I like that last drawing. The curves and holes add a much better look. If I were doing this I would be tempted to build the "temporary" outriggers similar to what you have drawn to make sure you locate the row locks in the right place in relation to your position and to see what space you must leave clear of structure to assure a good rowing experience. Until you properly establish this spacial understanding you are doing a lot of guessing (maybe educated guessing, but still guessing). And to spend a ton of time developing a nice curved laminated outrigger that may end up not even working would be a waste. Once you know exactly where the row locks need to end up, and you know where structure simple must not be, you can go back and design that beauteous final outrigger.

[woodman]

Trial and error..keeps the old brain cells working...

[Mike John]

Jeff, There's a simple outrigger system in this video

Mike John

[Kudzu]

Lamination's won out. Photos will follow.

[Tom the rower]

here is two removable outriggers for car topping, although, your laminated ones will surely be more pleasing to the eye

[Tom the rower]

Also, seen here, drunkrowing.blogspot.com are a non removable outriggers that are pleasing to the eye.

[Mike John]

There's been a discussion on fixed seat, sliding rowing outriggers here http://groups.yahoo....m/message/49881

Brent said There is quite a lot of information to be found on http://slidingrigger.net/

Mike John