Setting Sails -- The Cat-Ketch and windward work

[W. Micawber]

I am new to the cat-ketch rig and was sailing my CS15 yesterday in winds around 10 mph. I could not seem to get my sails set correctly in order to sail well to windward. I was sailing in company with a Michalak's Mikes boat, and it was embarrassing to be handed my lunch by that boat. I tried snotter tension, adjusting main and mizzen, sailing a bit freer off the wind and etc, but nothing quite seemed to work well. The boat seemed a little loggy at the tiller, so I even raised my c/b a bit, which took the heaviness out of the steering of the helm. I would appreciate any tips that those more experienced with the rig could offer me. I know that it will take some time to get things dialed in appropriately, but it would be nice to have some sort of starting point rather than my own ignorance. Thanks.

[Alan Stewart]

It could be lots of things.

One thing I would make sure you are doing while sailing upwind especially in light air is make sure you are keeping the tiller pretty well centered most of the time or just a touch to windward. On the 20, that means that I usually have to adjust the mizzen a bit to balance the helm. We like a bit of weather helm on an upwind course to keep the boat driving to windward but too much will just keep you in a state of pinching which is very slow. Having the tiller too far off center will also be slow as it will increase drag. Also, having the sails over sheeted will cause slow and weird things to happen. If you don't use tell tales, they could help you out a lot in determining if you are over sheeted or not. I typically spend 70% of the time looking up and 30% looking around and doing other stuff.

As a start I might try sheeting in the main to where the clew just comes directly over the edge of the cockpit. Then head up until the main luffs just a bit, then fall off till it fills nicely. (tell tales would tell you for sure) then bring in the mizzen until it is just filled nicely with no back winding near the luff which is caused by the backwash of the main. This should be slightly more sheeted in than the main. Again tell tales would help. Maybe then bring the mizzen in a bit more if the helm is not too bad. Then if you have good speed you should be able to sheet the main in every so slightly more as your apparent wind is increasing. After that, think fast thoughts, watch for wind shifts and keep your eyes on the tell tales and trim accordingly.

With he CB AND rudder all the way down and sails sheeted in like above for close hauled she should round up slowly when you drop the tiller. If not, I would suspect something like rudder alignment.

Where are you sitting? if by yourself, I would be as far forward as is comfortable maybe by the CB or just forward of it. Have you got a tiller extension? Boat trim can have a huge effect on speed in the lower wind range. If it's super light, sitting on the leeward side to keep the boat heeled away. Leaning the masts into the wind is only fast on windsurfers and foiling moths.

like i said, it could be lots of things but without being able to sail with you, those are some things I would check.

-Alan

[wkisting]

Alan offers good advice. One thing I would add: When sailing upwind (i.e., close-hauled), I slacken the snotter to induce more belly (curvature) into the sail. Often, a small tweak of this sort adds a half of a knot to my upwind speed compared with a flatter sailshape. I think the curvature contributes to a more efficient airfoil shape which is particularly important when sailing upwind. Regardless, it definitely improves performance. I don't know how to convey the "right" amount of curvature, but play with the snotter tension for a few minutes while close-hauled and I think you'll quickly discover that the main, in particular, draws much better with some slackness in the snotter and a fuller belly.

Another suggestion: You may,as Alan alluded, need to adjust the balance of your sails so that you can keep the rudder relatively centered as he suggests; otherwise, your rudder may be inducing drag. If the concept of sail balance doesn't feel intuitive to you, try this in light winds: Retract your rudder and set sail... then use the main and mizzen sheets to steer. Try to do this for a half hour or so. I think it is the quickest way to learn how the sails balance each other. (It is also amazing how well you can control the boat with no rudder thanks to the ketch rig.) Once I started playing this sail-only steering game, I began to develop a much better intuitive sense of how the sails work and how best to trim them.

[W. Micawber]

Alan and Wes,

Thank you for your responses.

I do have tell tales. Mostly, I kept the main sheeted so that the clew was just at the outside of the gunwale and the mizzen sheeted to the inside corner of the of inwale. I had thought anything beyond that was oversheeting. I will try Alan's starting point suggestion the next time I am out.

Crew placement: My wife was sitting forward with her back resting against the fwd bulkhead. Since the winds were so light, she did not shift her position on tacks. I was just abaft the rowing thwart. On some courses, I would stay on the lee side and heel the boat as much as prudent. This did help some, but not enough. Alan, your comment about slow tacking is well taken. I had thought that was a problem rather than normal, hence my adjusting the c/b. As I recall, I did not have much weather helm. The tiller was centered mostly, but the boat was sluggish in tacking as I mentioned above.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Wes's response has me puzzled.

Flatter sails ail upwind better than cambered sails. Moves center of effort forward and allows you to sail closer to wind.

Are your sprits long enough? And I don't mean are they as long as the plans called for either.

My sprits were to blueprints in first Small Reach Regatta and I was being outpointed with a vengeance by Graham and Tom Lathrop.

Graham saw me and told me to tighten the snotter and I couldn't as there was no more adjustment I was all out of rope with the blocks kissing.

Made new sprits for second regatta and I was outpointing with a vengeance everybody else. It was like a whole different boat.

In first year I could pull away from Tom in a reach and a run but he outpointed me and left me quite dejected.

[W. Micawber]

Ray, I think my sprits are long enough. They are made according to plan, but I cannot tighten them enough for the snotter block to to interfere with the fwd end of the boom. I hope I am good on that score.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know about the efficacy of camber v flattened sails. But in light winds, it seems to me that flatter sails would be less effective than ones given more camber by a loosened sprit, since the flatter sails would not catch the wind as effectively. But I will let you folks who are more expert than I hash that out. I'll be interested to see how the conversation goes. I bet I will learn a thing or two. ~W

[wkisting]

Wes's response has me puzzled.

Flatter sails sail upwind better than cambered sails. Moves center of effort forward and allows you to sail closer to wind.

Hmmm... when I sail close-hauled in relatively light winds (4-8 mph), my GPS shoots up as much as half a knot when I slacken the snotter on the main. Perhaps there is a way to get even better upwind speed with a flatter sail and the sails trimmed differently, but if so, I haven't found out the secret yet. I'm confident Ray is more skilled than I, so he is almost certainly correct, but I consistently get better speed in my CS when I've tried giving more belly to the main, rather than tightening the snotter all the way to flat. (Again, I'm talking about light winds... I do flatten the sails in winds over 10-12 mph).

I'm not quite sure how to describe it, but there is a visible improvement in the set of the sail. What appears to be happening with my main is that the extra "belly" from slackening the snotter lets me sail slightly steeper into the wind than I could with a flatter sail... I think because the belly permits a little bit of twist in the sail that appears to catch the breeze at the aft edge and funnel it in, whereas a flatter sailshape stalls and flaps at the same angle of attack. In fact, the last time I was out, I was so impressed with the half-knot difference that my wife and I chatted about it while I repeatedly tightened, then loosened, the snotter. Each time, the loosening added belly and there was a noticeable gain in speed and what seemed like more forgiveness in the pointing ability. Visibly, it looked like the sail was being sucked upwind, which doesn't seem possible to me, but as I kept commenting to my wife, it really did appear as though the sail was filling and "bellying out" against the wind, or perhaps like the wind was striking the mast and curving/wrapping around into the sail.

I assumed this was a known technique. Now I'm really curious to know why my CS does better upwind with a slack snotter if that is not how it normally works.

[PeterP]

Wes relax - you are right. I've always done the same thing. I think Ray missed the crucial factor - there was very little wind. The only way you get any joy out of flat sail in those conditions is going down wind.PeterP

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Original query was winds of 10 mph. At that windspeed I would have the sails flatter ratther than fuller when close hauled.

In winds of 4-6 mph I would ease and have the sails aty the top of the sail track and give up some pointing ability for more power in the sails. but with winds of 10...

[wkisting]

Yes, I may have mis-read the original post. I thought we were talking about winds "under" (-) 10 mph, but now I see it says "around" (+/-). That's why I clarified in my last post. Sorry if I misunderstood. For me, 10 or 12 mph is about the cut-off point. I slacken the snotter below those windspeeds, and tighten it up above those speeds. Since he mentioned trying to induce heel also, I just had it in my head that he was talking about very light winds.

For a moment, Ray had me convinced my CS20 could bend the laws of aerodynamics.

[JeffM]

I was surprised at Alan's post also--but for another reason. When my CS20 was brand-new, Graham commented in response to sail trim questions that, to weather, the main should be sheeted in with the clew about 20 inches off centerline, advice I have ever since followed pretty religiously. I just double-checked my boat to make sure: that puts the end of the sprit considerably inboard of the coaming. Even sheeted in this way, I still can't tack through less than 120-130 degrees, course made good as measured by gps. (But judging by the performance of others, that's probably my lack of boat-building skill.)

Jeff

[Alan Stewart]

JeffM, your not wrong and I too sheet her in hard just not right off the bat. If I'm going from a dead stop or if I'm right out of a tack then I like to have the main let out a bit to get the sail in trim at the slower speed. Then as the boat picks up speed and apparent wind shifts forward I sheet in to keep the sail in trim. It's easier done than said. Basically just always be looking a the tell tales. If your charging along sheeted in hard and driving to windward and you tack without adjusting the main then in those few seconds just after the tack (if you are on your new proper course) you will for sure be over sheeted and that leeward tell tale will be flapping away until the boat picks up speed again. If you sheet out a bit as you leave the tack you will be closer to optimum trim at the slower speed and she will accelerate faster. Once she gets that first good push, bring it in tighter. I mentioned in my first reply that once you get going a little faster you can bring the main in as the apparent wind shifts.

This works great in flat water but in a chop when the boat is slowing down a lot due to wave action, it is often better to be sheeted out a bit to keep the main fuller since your going to be going a little slower. Often you can just feel (at least i can) when the boat is happy, powered up and driving to windward (also called "in the groove")and when she feels sluggish slow and stalled out. Often you will feel that sluggishness when you are oversheeted and the boat just can't pick up enough speed in the stalled state to get over that hump into the happy charging ahead, driving mode. I also notice that the CS boats are very good about giving you that "feel" in feedback from the boat. Some boats don't give much feedback when they are going slow and that makes it hard to get them into and stay in the groove.

-Alan

[Gordy Hill]

I'm going to go along with Allen mostly because he's a much more experienced sailor than I and it will make me look smart.

I had a single main sheet led to a block with a cam lock. It was fitted next to the mizzen. When I put the helm down I let the main sheet loose so suddenly all the wind pressure was on the mizzen. The boat turned up nicely and when the mizzen filled on the other tack I would fall off a bit and slowly ease in the main.

I was always impressed with how well the boat went to windward. The Sea Pearl drivers at Cedar Key were very impressed as well.

With any wind at all I'd sheet everything in as tight as it would go and then ease off just a bit. Then, as Allen said, I'd concentrate on the tell-tails.

I'm no great racer, but I never needed no stinking outboard...........

[W. Micawber]

I got a chance to try my hand at some windward work today. The suggestions made by Alan and Wes were very helpful. Breezes were light at first, but later in the day they kicked up, which made for some interesting sailing. I need a larger side deck or a smaller behind! Oh, and watch out for those rowlocks!

I wish I had taken my GPS. The CS15 has very deliberate responses which give one plenty of time to react. One would have to be asleep at the tiller to capsize this boat accidentally. This characteristic is one of the reasons my wife and I like this boat. She is very comfortable to sail even when it breezes up. She just lowers her shoulder and gets on about her business. For this reason, it was difficult, at times, to tell when she was happy or unhappy in her windward work. Even with the tales flying aft perfectly, sometimes she felt a little bogged down, or so I interpret it, because I figured she could have been moving a bit more smartly. But some things I noticed:

In winds 10 mph and below, it did not seem profitable to have the clew of the main sheeted in any farther than the inwale. Winds 15-20 meant you could sheet in a few inches more. The lake I sailed on has flukey winds, so I was forever adjusting to windshifts and gusts. It would be interesting to see how things work with more sustained and steady winds.

Lee Helm? Is it common to have lee helm when sailing on a reach and run?

Tell Tales -- I have them placed on one side of the sail near the leach. Should they be on both sides? It seems that they would behave differently when the tales are on the leeward side of the sail. But what do I know, I'm just a newbie at this.

[W. Micawber]

Wanna know what a small craft advisory with 3-5ft waves looks like from a CS15. . . .

YEEEEHAWWWW! With a bit of fear mixed in.

I could have used some rail meat today. Clocked 7mph to windward, but could not sustain it since I could not keep her on her feet by my 200lb self. I should not have gone on a diet. Winds were 10-15 with gusts to 20. The boat consistently did over 6mph to windward with such little fuss that one could hardly tell the difference between that and 4mph, except for the fact that once she gets above 5.5, she smooths out and the hull makes a distinctiive sssssssssssssssssssssssss sound as she heads on her way. A very satisfying day on the water!