Which Boat? Spindrift 12 or BRS 15?

[Diddle Dally]

I'm on the fence about which boat would suit me. I have narrowed it down to these two, but just can't decide which one. I have never sailed before, or built a boat before. I am on a limited budget, and materials cost's seem about the same between the two. I would like to know how the two differ in performance. I will be sailing on lakes and around Beauford and Morehead City (when I can). So any advice would be helpful.

Thanks

[DISTELTK]

I built a BRS 15 a few years ago. 

The BRS 15 has straight sides and does not use the butterfly method.

This is easier to build.  The15 is a lot larger than the S12.

BRS 15 is a Cat Ketch unstayed masts.  The S12 can be a sloop or cat rig.  I sail mine solo mostly.  It is very stable and rather quick. 

I can rig it easily,  I store the boat with the masts full length and the sails rolled up on them.  I have home built racks on the bow, stern seat and midship to carry the masts.  In a chop the BRS 15 takes some splash into the cockpit.  I think the more rounded butterfly style bow section may be dryer.  I am 68 and a little overweight.  The 15 has more cockpit room if having passengers and or crew will be on board.  The B&B plans are very easy to follow and this forum it fantastic for newbees is questions come up.  No one will think any question is silly.  We all started with our first boat.  Good luck and let us know how the build proceeds.

Tom D  BRS 15/Birder II

[JeffM]

Big size difference.  therefore weight and handling differences.  How easy is it to get to the water?  An s12 could probably be car-topped, a brs is a trailer boat.  How do you picture yourself sailing?  How many people?  Sometimes family becomes crew, but often the builder ends up sailing solo most of the time.  I haven't sailed either of these (though my cs20 is a descendant of the brs), but I imagine the brs to be a good deal more costly to build.  It would be good for you to experience different boats, even if they're not these boats, just so you can see some of the range.  If you've never sailed, consider getting a small used boat or building a small, simple design to start.  A small boat is useful enough that it is seldom unwanted, even if you later go on to something bigger.

Jeff Michals-Brown

[sscoville]

I'm building a BRS 17' and it's a lot of boat.  I would consider the 15' if I was to do it over.  I have never sailed either, except once on a Sunfish this summer.  I built a 12' rowing skiff before I started this one.  No question you could build either one and have fun doing it.  The sails are a very significant cost - make sure to factor that. 

[John Burritt]

Just to throw another complication into the decision - have you considered a Core Sound 15?

[Guest wwbaginski]

I'm building a BRS 17' and it's a lot of boat.  I would consider the 15' if I was to do it over. ..

yes it looks like a lot o boat, and it means some extra work ,  but once you launch her you will appreciate it a lot.  More comfort, more safety, more possibilities.

After all, it is said: match your boat to your waterways.

[Diddle Dally]

Thank you for all your responses. Yes I have considered the Core Sound 15. And I have factored the sails, I just don't know how much they are, but I know I will need two of them with the BRS. Besides, I like the BRS a little better than the CS15. So if you take the sails out of the equation, how do the two compare in cost to build? I know that the Spindrift takes two sheets less than the BRS, and if I do go with the BRS, I know I will have to get two sails and make another mast. So I know there will be a difference, but how much? I really can't go much smaller than 12' as I am 6'2". I thought about the 10', until I saw one at Grahams. I thought it was a little cramped. UGH! I just can't decide

[sscoville]

I think Graham quoted me about $600 total for both BRS 17 sails.  I hope that's not each.  I obviously have not reached that point in construction yet.  If you don't get a clear answer here, I'm sure you can get the materials lists from Graham.  Another thing, being that it's your first boat, I'd say you'll use at least twice as much epoxy and general supplies as necessary - unless you've worked with fiberglass and epoxy before.  I could of probably reduced a lot of waste on my first boat if I had someone experienced show me how to fillet and glass my first joint. 

[JeffM]

I probably scraped and sanded off half the epoxy I used!  I know I didn't stay anywhere close to Graham's estimated need.

[DISTELTK]

Sail cost can be reduced by making your own.

I used a white polytarp kit from the internet.  To save a little more funds.  The plan sheet show enough info to make your own.  Since it is your first boat performance may not be the most important.  I made mine using fiberglass carpet tape.  Total cost for both BRS 15 sails could be well under 100 bucks if you buy the tape and tarp yourself.

Search polytarp sails and you will find a lot of info.

Polysail International kit (1997) for a BRS 15 with shipping & taxes less than $100.00.

Tom D.  BRS 15/Birder II

[Diddle Dally]

Thanks Tom for the info on the sails. You may have swayed my decision towards the BRS. I think that building the BRS would better suit me, as I can grow into it, even with homemade sails. I'm not going to be racing it ! So the 15 it is! Now, gotta build a new shed to build it! I need a new, larger, shed anyway! Or maybe a temp. shelter. I recieved the materials list for the BRS15 and the CS15, and the CS requires two more sheets of plywood. I also got the picture cd, and can see the difference's in building techniques between the two. However, there are more CS pic's than BRS's. I would recommend anyone considering the CS's to get the pic cd. As there is a weath of info on it. If anyone has any building pic's of the BRS, I would like to see them. Thank's to all for your input. I'm looking forward to getting my build on the way, put it won't be anytime soon. But at least now I now what I want to build, and can make plans for how to build it. I will put the plans on my christmas list...do I really need a table saw? Any suggestions on tools I might be needing. I know I will need a plane, I had a Stanley 4 1/2" in my hand at the flea market, but wasn't to impressed with the $50 dollar price tag. He said it was a rare one. My wife said she thinks her grandpa's planes are still at her mothers house, so I will wait to see what is up there at christmas time.

[John Burritt]

Be really nice to your mother-in-law.  You may get some real gems.

[Ken_Potts]

  It sounds like you've made the decision on which boat - What a relief, eh?  :grin:

  I would never regret spending money on a good hand plane.  I only wish I had been able to get hold of Grandpa's tools - I told him I'd like them when he was finished with them but he didn't want to bother me with having to drive a trailer across several states so he sold the entire basement to a stranger (probably for a song)  :shock:

  My tablesaw is my favorite power tool, but if I didn't have one I would have still been able to build my CS17.  I think my tablesaw saved me money on lumber, though.  I bought rough-cut stuff and ripped it myself.  Cheaper than buying a lot of 1x2.

  If I was only able to have two power tools to build a boat they would be a good jigsaw and a good belt sander.  The job becomes a LOT more pleasant if you can substitute a few strokes of a hand plane for lots of grinding away with the belt sander, though.  I agree with John - Be nice to the mother in law.  Hand planes are a very nice thing to have.

[Peter HK]

If I was only able to have two power tools to build a boat they would be a good jigsaw and a good belt sander

My vote for best power tool would be a cordless drill/screwdriver. I like my Panasonic 14.4 V as it's light and relatively small which means it's easier to use in cramped awkward places. Shame about the layer of epoxy that slowly accumulates on it :-(

Cheers

Peter HK

[John Turpin]

Shame about the layer of epoxy that slowly accumulates on it

Oh man.  Don't get me started.   :x

[sscoville]

On the left is a link to my blog for my build.  I agree there are few pics on the BRS cd.  You definitely ought to have a cordless drill.  I have used my dad's table saw a few times during this project, but my favorite tool to borrow is his band saw.  Maybe you know someone with these big tools you can borrow.  And if I was looking at buying a table saw that costs the same as a quality band saw, I would go with the band saw.  You'll need clamps and sanders too.  I think you could build the entire project with only a circular saw - get a rip guide attachment, cordless drill, block plane, and power sander.  Maybe a coping hand saw too.  I also bought a makita sander/polisher off of ebay when I started my first boat.  I use this fairly often with a 36 grit disk.  

[John Burritt]

John - What epoxy?  Aren't all tools a mottled brown color?

[Diddle Dally]

Well my wife bought me an early christmas present! A Dewalt 18v cordless drill. I also have a little cordless drill, so I can use that one for the tight spots, and to get that pretty brown coating of epoxy you all are talking about. I do have an assortment of sanders. I have a belt sander, but if I can find a good deal on a heavyer duty one, maybe I should pick it up. Or just use mine till it burns out. I have been looking on craigslist at table saws and have seen some pretty good deals on there. So, a table saw it is. I also have a miter saw, and a circular saw. Gotta stock up on some clamps. I like the pcv one's I see people using on their boats. The one thing I need, that is at a premium is a space to build. Maybe I can build a lean-to off of my shed. Maybe some thing astheticly pleasing to the eye with blue or camo tarps .

[PeterP]

Peter's vote for a good cordless is seconded over here. I have a Bosch 18V and love it. The power pack is relatively large but the driver does a lot of good stuff for me and I don't need to swap out to recharge too often. I wrapped mine completely in duct tape and it remains to be seen how effective a protection that provides. PeterP