Core Sound 20 #130

[wkisting]

Your build is looking very nice. I made all of my deck beams out of Douglas Fir bought locally from a lumber yard (all air-dried, and knot-free). It worked great, but watch out for slivers! They can be brutal.

Wes

[Twetmore]

I haven't posted any picture in a while so I thought that I would update everyone.  I haven't been making record speed but it is progress.  I plan on getting a lot done this weekend.

[John Turpin]

Beautiful work.  Please keep the photos coming.

[Twetmore]

I installed the sides to the seats this weekend and glued up the center board so I can make the center board case.  Here are some more photos.

[Twetmore]

I have been making good progress lately and am hoping to make more.  I know that it is probably a little early but I wanted to start thinking about getting a trailer and was wondering if anyone had any good suggestions.  I have asked for a couple of quotes from EZ Trailer dealers and just found a post about a Genesis Trailer which I will inquire about.  I am very interested in cheap so I was hoping to find something on Craigs List however I am not sure exactly what to look for and was hoping that someone could point me in the right direction.

I think this boat is a little odd for a trailer since it is 20' long, has a 6'-3" beam, but only weighs around 600 pounds.  If I purchased a trailer designed for a 20' speed boat would it tow a 600 pound boat just the same?  I found a really cheap 600 pound capacity trailer in Norther Tools but it is only rated for a 12-14' long boat and I doubt I have the ability to adjust it.

I would appreciate any input, Thank you,

Tom

[wkisting]

We trailer ours on a trailer that is technically designed for a 17' (max) boat and is rated for a gross capacity of 2500 lbs. It is single axle and made out of 3" square tubing and C-channel cross beams. That was the smallest trailer I could find and it has worked very well, though the axles are a bit stiff for such a light boat (CS20). I run the tires at 38 psi of pressure instead of the max of 50 psi and it seems to ride smoothly... hardly even can tell that we're pulling it. We installed three keel rollers on the three crossbeams of the trailer, with an additional roller near the bow (just below the winch, where the forward hull rests). Most of the weight rides on the rollers, with two 8' bunks (one on each side, under the aft half of the boat) raised just high enough to prevent the boat from teetering side to side on the rollers (but not really carrying much of the load). This makes launching very easily. I back in until the taillights are wet, then release the winch and the boat rolls off with a mild push. It can be retrieved the same way.

Regarding length overall... recently, I figured out that if I shifted the winch stand and boat all the way forward on the 17' trailer (leaving only 2' overhang at the back), I could add a swing-away trailer extension (34" long + hinge) and fit the whole package straight into our garage. The garage is 20'5" long, so the boat just barely squeezes in with the winch stand, but now it fits straight in (instead of on the diagonal as I was storing it) and I have half of my 2-car garage space back for working on other projects.

Frankly, any trailer with a capacity of 1,000 - 2,000 lbs. and length adequate for a standard 17' boat will fit the CS20 very well, with minimal modification. The overhang off the back of the trailer (up to 4', which I think is the legal limit of overhang in most states) actually helps launch easier and keeps the trailer lighter and less intrusive than if you shopped for a true 20' boat trailer. Most of the 17' trailers we found were rated for 2500 lbs. by default, so that is why ours has a higher capacity than needed. Also, I recommend a trailer with 12" or 13" tires, which roll and tow considerably smoother than the trailers with the smaller 8" tires.

One problem we had shopping for a trailer was convincing people we did NOT need a special sailboat trailer (designed to accommodate a keel). Tell folks you need a trailer for a 17 - 20' skiff and they have a much better idea of what you're looking for.

[Edit to add: Here is a pic of our setup, with folding tongue, squeezed cozily into the garage.]

[Terry Dunn]

Ah Trailers.

I built a spindrift 10 as my first build. I bought a used 1000 lb trailer that had a 16 ft fishing boat on it and the owner was going to a larger trailer. The S10 looks a bit funny on that big of a trailer but it works well. When I built my CS 20 I put it on that trailer and it worked ok. It has 12" wheels.

I wanted bigger wheels for highway speeds so I bought a used 1987 trailer with 14" wheels that had had an 18' Bayliner on it for $250. The tires looked new so I have not replaced them in the 6 years I have had the trailer. It is much heavier than I need but it works well. I have probably over 10,000 highway miles in it. I moved the axel forward to reduce the tongue weight.

The smaller trailer weighs much less than the larger trailer. Just pulling the larger trailer without the boat felt as heavy as my small trailer with the CS 20.

There is a wide range of trailers that will work for your CS20. Buying used has worked for me but may not be the best way to go.

Pretty much any trailer for a 16' to 18' semi V boat will work. I do like a trailer with fenders I can stand on to get in and out of the boat on land

[ThistleCap]

I understand the idea was to make the trailer ride easier by making the tire softer by underinflation, and with a lighter boat, stresses may not be as critical.  However, there are a couple things that should be kept in mind and included in the equation.  The maximum load and recommended maximum cold inflation of the tire gives the designed tread wear and load carrying capacity the tire is engineered for.  As the air pressure decreases, the load carrying ability of the tire decreases as well, thus the importance of frequently checking inflation levels.  Reducing tire pressure also does other undesireable things---it increases tread wear, it changes handling characteristics, it makes the tire run hotter, and it stresses the sidewalls.  The combination of any of these factors along with the natural aging of the rubber can result in shorter tire life and increased likelihood of tire failure or blowout.

[wkisting]

Good points Thistlecap. In this case, we're so far below the capacity rating of the trailer and tires (hardly 25% of the 2500 lbs. load rating) that I don't think there is much practical danger in our case. Despite the lower inflation, there is no visible bulge to the tires while sitting still or at speed. But you're correct that on a trailer rated for a capacity closer to the actual boat weight, there are potential dangers with underinflated tires. I should've mentioned that. Since the capacity on our trailer is so high, the leaf springs are a bit stiff when you hit road bumps. The recommended inflation range on these tires is 35 - 50 psi, so we're still safely within the recommended range at 38, and certainly if we were pulling more than half of the rated capacity, I would err closer to the high side for the reasons you mention, as well as fuel efficiency when pulling.

[Twetmore]

Thanks for the help everyone.  I have contacted a few local trailer sales companies and hopefully will get some quotes back soon both new and used.  I will also keep my eye on Craig's List and local adds, I still have a couple of months before I really need to searching hard but thought I would try to get ahead of the curve.

I have another question for everyone though.  How slick is the epoxy when water gets on it?  I guess I could finish a piece and try it out on my own but thought I would ask the experts first.

On the science building I am working on we have a couple of epoxy floors that have sand in between the layers.  I don't know how good of an idea this would be.  I would worry that if the epoxy didn't really lock the sand in it could start to wear on the other surfaces.  Also, I was planning on finishing the floor and seats clear so you could see the wood and am not sure how the floor would look clear with sand in it.

Wes, your boat looks great.  Any specific reasons that you decided to paint the interior white instead of finishing clear or was it just preference?

I would appreciate any incite.

Thanks,

Tom

[Twetmore]

Another question came up about painting the bottom.  My Dad has a painter right now that does not have a whole lot of work and can do a better job then I can for cheap.  I was wondering if anyone has used a commercial airless spray gun and how they have cleaned the epoxy out afterwords?  The painter is really good but has never sprayed epoxy before and doesn't want to ruin his gun.  I looked at the product data online for bottom epoxy from Interlux and couldn't find any information on cleaning.

I am interested in using the same product that Wes used (Interlux VC Performance teflon-impregnated epoxy paint) however, I am also interested in painting the bottom a color and was kind of set on a dark green which seems to limit my options.  Does any have a product that they have used and have found to be very good that has color options?  Is their anyway to tint the Interlux VC?  I am looking at the Pettit Hydrocoat right now which has a dark green and some good review below it but I am worried about pulling on and off trailers and beaching.  Is a gel coat a good option?  I need to do some more homework but would appreciate the head start.

Finally, I guess I could do the math but since I have some people with experience here, how many gallons do I need for 4 coats of paint on the bottom of a CS20?

Thanks,

[wkisting]

Yep... we painted the interior white primarily so that wear spots (from clothing or equipment rubbing the seats, floor, etc.) would be easy to spot and easy to touch up. I think a clear-finished ("bright") interior would be too much maintenance and wouldn't appeal to me aesthetically either. (I prefer a balance of paint and brightwork, as I think too much brightwork can look gaudy). It's personal preference, of course, but as I was saying to my wife the other day when we went to the lake, I really feel like we made exactly the right choices on this boat. It suits our needs perfectly, looks attractive, and has been very easy to maintain.

FYI, one potential downside of a white interior is that it can be very bright in the sun, but the white stays cooler than a dark interior and we chose an off-white ("Whidbey White" from Systems 3) which also cuts down on the glare compared to a brilliant white. In addition, we deliberately opted not to sand the interior paint perfectly smooth for a fine finish, which was wise. The gentle texture of the roller we used to apply the paint is actually quite nice looking, reduces glare, and provides a bit of added traction in the interior. Even then, we added two heavy-duty rubber mats in the back where I steer because just a little water on the floor can make it slick as heck.

A note about the Interlux VC Performance... I don't think you would want to tint it, and it only comes in white. Other VC formulas (not VC Performance, though) may offer a dark green color, but it is a very different product than the Teflon-impregnated blend we used so I cannot comment on their quality or ease of application. If you apply VC Performance, know that NOTHING will ever stick over it, so once it's on, it is on (unless you sand back down to the fiberglass later). Even vinyl stickers won't adhere to the teflon, which is why we had to make trailboards to display our registration numbers.

[hokeyhydro]

Odd - that no cleaning solvent info is offered by the paint manufacturer.  Might want to call their *help* line. I have sprayed a variety of catalyzed auto finishes and never had a problem gun cleaning with the solvent which was also used to thin the mix to the correct spray viscosity. (Whan cup) And many moons ago I sprayed gel coat (polyester resin). The gun cleaner was acetone. There was always a bit of residue left. About every couple weeks of daily spray use I would take the gun apart, stick it in a large can with a couple inches of acetone on the bottom, slap a lid on it and let `er fume for a day or so. Ate all the residue off the gun parts - reassemble, back in production.

[Twetmore]

Hokeyhydro, I just got an email back from Interlux and they sent me the product information on a solvent I should use.  I also talked with the painter on my project and he says he soaks it in the solvent then runs mineral spirits through it to disipate the heat.  The painter also says there is very little advantage to spraying and he recommends rolling.

It looks like the Interlux VC only comes in white and they do not tint it so I will have to make some decisions or look at some other manufacturers.

Wes, I have been going back and forth about finishing the interior bright and I think you may be right that to much bright work could look gaudy.  It will have to be something that I will need to think about.  I was worried about the glare off of a white paint from the sun.  Seems like with the water and white paint there would be a lot of light reflecting back but I will have to looking into the off whites as well.  Good to know about the VC not allowing things to stick to it, I will have to keep this in mind if I choose to use it.

Thanks for the advice!

Does anyone have any opinions on putting sand between layers of epoxy for added traction on the floor?  I am still trying to decide if this is a good idea or not (leaning towards not).

[brentkend]

I've used VC Performance Epoxy for my hull and blades.  I "tinted" it with West System Graphite powder...took a lot of mixing, waiting, more mixing to get the clumps out.  The result was a light gray color that worked well.  I rolled / tipped it on (4 coats) and then lightly sanded it with increasing grits up to 600 wet, followed by burnishing with bronze wool.  Came out very smooth.

You can get various pigments that work for epoxy and would probably work fine with the VC Performance Epoxy paint.

Brent

L7, #4 "Wild Goose"

[hokeyhydro]

The upside of a pure white finish is you can develop a full tan!  Yep, tan under your earlobes and any other bare places where the sun don't usually shine. But white is major glare, hard on the eyes. I would go for an off-white finish.  I would not go with sand. You will create sandpaper, and my personal experience with such finishes is they quickly remove foot callus and work on skin.  If you sail hard and wind up taking a few tumbles or four-legged scrambles you could then drop in at your local biker bar and share war stories with a biker who didn't stay on the steed and wound up with Road Rash.  I reckon you would have to call your wounds Deck Rash.

My daughter likes a wood finish (bright) so I'll varnish the beach cat I'm building her.  Beach cats are a wet ride so it should stay cool enough, and if the deck proves slippery I'll pop in the surf board shop and get whatever wax boarders use to keep their feet planted.

[Peter HK]

I would not go with sand

I've used this before http://www.yachtpaint.com/australia//product_guide/special_products/AU_intergrip.asp?ComponentID=18851&SourcePageID=13346#1

Works well, finer than sand and as they are round particles they tend not to scratch like sand.

Cheers

Peter HK

[Twetmore]

Thanks for the help and advise everyone.  Just got back from vacation and looking forward to getting back into the grind.

[Twetmore]

A couple of updates with pictures.  Nothing ground breaking but I was on vacation for a week and feel like I fell a little behind.

[Twetmore]

Does anyone have experience with Pettit Unepoxy or Unepoxy Plus?  They have the green color that I want and it is designed to harden for trailer use.

Also, I plan on putting additional fabric on the leading edge and bottom of my centerboard for abrasion resistence.  I know that Wes did this with kevlar fabric, how does it work?  I know that a lot of people to a epoxy saturated rope but is it really necessary?  I will be in deep water most of the time, but I guess I will have to go shallow sometime to beach and launch.  Any input would be appreciated.