Another paint question

[Gregg]

I am almost done with my weekender. Getting ready to choose paint. The epoxy I will use is Raka's new non blush formula.

I have read a number of posts on latex paints, I do not want to wait six weeks to launch. So, I am looking at Vivid by Pettit for the bottom because the boat may stay in the water for up to a week when we are on vacation. And Interlux for the hull and topsides.

I have used Behr porch paint on my 12 footer it has worked well on that boat, but after 18 months on this project time is most important.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Gregg L

[Greg Luckett]

Ray,

Thanks for the heads up about the System Three, 2 part, water based primer.  That sounds like an odd combination and is something new for me to play with.  I am ordering some today or tomorrow.

Greg

[Greg Luckett]

Ray,

Jamestown wants $51.25 a qt for the WR-155.  Does this sound right to you or is there a better deal elsewhere?  I wonder if B&B sells it?

Greg

[Greg Luckett]

Ray, I know I should probably know, but what does "IIRC" mean?

[Gregg]

Ray,

Thank you for the input. I am overwhelmed by the amount of paint choices. I have heard from Stevenson that LPU is a great coating. A couple of more questions, will LPU perform well below the water line?

Also how will it do if left in the water for a week or so occasionally? A Vacation in FL etc.

One of the reasons I was looking at Vivid is it gave me a antifouling bottom paint and was for dry sailed boats (so the Vivid ads say).

What is a tie coat?

Last one different subject, how do I measure for waterline?

Hope that was not too many questions. Thanks in advance.

Gregg

[Greg Luckett]

Ray, that last comment about the waterline sitting higher in the front is interesting.  Where you speaking in general or just about the Weekender specifically?  I have painted wider waterlines to the aft on my Catalina 22, mostly because it was originally done that way but it was right for the hull shape too.  Based on that experience, I believe the water lines do not need to be the same width down the hull but should be done based on hull shape.  On the Catalina the hull broadened aft and the actual waterline was under the rounded chine.

Thanks for the insights 

[Gregg]

Thanks again Ray for all the information. Maybe I could paint the boat with LPU and at later time paint over the bottom with Micron SC multi season ablative. I will mostly day sail this boat. It's only the week in the water while on vacation that was giving me trouble; I just don't want the paint (LPU) to fall off the bottom of the boat.

Thanks again.

Gregg

[Charlie Jones]

Three things Greg.

First- got your email but we then were unable to log on- we're swimming here Had 9 inches ( guessing) of rain in last 72 hours Guessing because the rain guage overflowed yesterday afternoon. No sign of it stopping til tonight either.

Oh- that makes 18 inches plus in last 7 days.

Second- the boot top itself SHOULD get wider as the water line on the hull tucks under, as it does at the stern. If you paint a boot top the exact same width all along the boat, where the hull tucks under will make the boot top appear to become narrower- you must widen it to give the illusion of same width all along the hull. Gets wider bow and stern. Looks funky if you don't.

Third- we sprayed our dinghy with LPU last year. We had EasyPoxy on it before. In our two trips to Florida and return, the dink was in the water for 30 plus days on both trips. The Easy Poxy peeled off. The LPU is still going strong, even now a year later. The dink is stored upside down on the end of our finger pier so is in full sun all day too.

It's true they don't recommend it for full time underwater use, but 30 + days didn't hurt our dink. I think for several days use it should be ok.

[Greg Luckett]

Ray & Charlie,

Are you referring to the System Three WR-LPU Topcoat?  Ray, I do not see that it is a water based paint.  To quote:http://www.systemthree.com/p_wr_lpu.asp

Am I at the right paint?

"WR-LPU Linear Polyurethane Topcoat

WR-LPU Topcoat is a two-part linear polyurethane coating specifically formulated for maximum performance and ease of use. Available in 12 standard colors as well as clear satin and high gloss. When cured it is moisture, solvent and fuel resistant. WR-LPU contains UV absorbers and will not yellow or lose gloss for years, depending on exposure. WR-LPU product kit contains a can of paint and a bottle of crosslinking material. The paint by itself cures to a very high-quality coating, without the crosslinker. However, the addition of the crosslinking material produces a tougher and more durable film. It will be more chemical and fuel resistant, have better gloss retention and generally last longer than a film cured without the crosslinker.

Recommended Uses:

Use WR-LPU for both interior and exterior surfaces. It is not intended for continuous below waterline use. Used as a clear finish without the primer, it can beautify and protect wood from discoloration and degradation."

[inboil]

Iain't Ray and I ain't Charlie, but I have used WR-LPU and you is at the right place-I swear it. WR=Water Reducible

Ray & Charlie,

Are you referring to the System Three WR-LPU Topcoat?  Ray, I do not see that it is a water based paint.  To quote:http://www.systemthree.com/p_wr_lpu.asp

Am I at the right paint?

"WR-LPU Linear Polyurethane Topcoat

WR-LPU Topcoat is a two-part linear polyurethane coating specifically formulated for maximum performance and ease of use. Available in 12 standard colors as well as clear satin and high gloss. When cured it is moisture, solvent and fuel resistant. WR-LPU contains UV absorbers and will not yellow or lose gloss for years, depending on exposure. WR-LPU product kit contains a can of paint and a bottle of crosslinking material. The paint by itself cures to a very high-quality coating, without the crosslinker. However, the addition of the crosslinking material produces a tougher and more durable film. It will be more chemical and fuel resistant, have better gloss retention and generally last longer than a film cured without the crosslinker.

Recommended Uses:

Use WR-LPU for both interior and exterior surfaces. It is not intended for continuous below waterline use. Used as a clear finish without the primer, it can beautify and protect wood from discoloration and degradation."

[Charlie Jones]

I've never used the System 3 stuff. Never used Sys 3 epoxy either.

Until just recently I was using a 2 part LPU that was made by a regional company for oil field use- fiberglass storage tanks, etc. I was getting a gallon for 33 bucks as opposed to 30 some dollars for a quart of Awlgrip or Imron. However the company closed due to the health of the owner.

NOW I'm using an automotive type paint that is also a two part, but is an acrylic. Costs me about 50 a gallon for this and is tough stuff. But I would never recommend either of those to someone who didn't have the proper equipment and know how. Both are Isocyanatic and are dangerous materils sprayed improperly.

But since I was able to buy either paint in custom colors through my local wholesaler , I will stick to what I can get here. I've been dealing through them for some 15 years now and have come to rely on them.

'

[Greg Luckett]

That makes sense now, thank you. WR that is.

[Gregg]

Thanks Charlie, you and Ray are great resources for those of us still learning. I hope that rain gives you a break soon.

I think that LPU is the way to go, and later if we do get to go on vacation (not going this year) maybe I will put a bottom paint on the boat. Until then I'm a day sailor.

[Hirilonde]

With Awlgrip, get a ding or scratch and at the very least you need the whole side of the boat recoated.  Once abraded with sandpaper, you can't get the gloss back.  The gloss is formed by resins rising to the surface as cured.

Ray,

Your assessment of why repairs are so difficult is accurate, but it can be repaired.  Our painters here at the boatyard do repair paint jobs, but the job is tedious and time consuming.

They mask of the scratched area and sand and wet sand the scratches out.  If this means wearing through to the primer they then spray the area again.  Then wet sand again lightly over-lapping on to adjacent surface.  They then enlarge the masked area and spray with clear.  At this point the center of the repair matches but over spray around it is hazy.  This over spray is compounded out and the repair blends into the rest of that surface.

What I don't like about Awlgrip are the isocyanates.  It is one of, if not the most deadly chemicals in a boatyard. Even though our painters use supplied air and suits, we have a special spray bay complete with filtered exhaust fan, spray sessions are announced to all, etc., the fumes are present and I'm sure small doses are inhaled by others.

Ray,  how well does the System 3 stand up over the long haul?  I like shiny, but semi-gloss that lasts a long time, that is easy to repair and safe to use sure sounds appealing.

[Charlie Jones]

we scraped the side of Tehani on some bolts protruding from a dock. Made Laura quite irate since we had sailed 1600 miles through many locks, etc without a scratch and got the scrape at our home marina on the day we returned. She was PO'd BIG time.

She worked from the dock sanded out the scrape, and re painted using a preval sprayer. Very difficult to see the repairs, but I should point out two things- she's an artist after all, and the paint was less than 2months old and is a semigloss finish. I shot it to be semi gloss rather than high gloss for just that reason, plus the boat is 46 years old- you can't totally get rid of that many years of hull scrapes and dings so semigloss hid a lot.

On my customer boats I shoot gloss, on my own I prefer the semi gloss look anyway.

[Norman Colter]

Thank you all for this informative and timely thread. My Princess is almost ready for her final turn. Yesterday I confidently ordered paint. Today I continue to sand, as I will for the rest of the week. Next weekend I will be painting.

Norm

[Greg Luckett]

Norm,

What is your P22 build time up to now?  I am estimating 2 to 3 years to build the P26 from initial material ordering to splashing.

Thanks,

Greg.

[Norman Colter]

Greg, that sounds about right. I suppose it all depends on how much time you make for boat building. I've had my plans for better than five years, does mentally building count.

But actually building...I started last june. Trying to average ten hours a week boat time. I'm assembling in an outdoor shelter, so weather plays a big role. I have an indoor shop to create pieces. Last winter I sewed sails. The plan is to make masts this winter.

Hope to have painting the bottom and sides done by the end of the month. I'm projecting a splash in the fall of 08. I'd love to launch between the 4th and Laborday, but we get nice sailing days into October.

Norm

[Greg Luckett]

Wow, you sewed your own sails?  I have considered doing so for a small boat but have not really considered the large ones.  I bet that saves a bundle of cash doing it yourself.  Any idea how much it saved you?  That is 3 sails?  How many hours of sewing, etc. did you spend on them?  I am wondering how the trade off would be for me and this information would help me make a better decision.

Thanks :)

[Norman Colter]

I don't know how much I've saved because I haven't inquired as to what a set of sails might cost. When I started on this adventure I purchased Marino's Sailmaker's Apprentice. I was introduced to a sewing machine at a young age. During the mental stage of building there was never a question that "doing it myself" meant sails as well.

No mizzen staysail yet, not convinced I need it. Don't have enough info to draw a proper sail plan. Just the main and mizzen. Materials IIRC just under $400.00. About twenty hours of my time. The majority of it being done on three saturdays that got five hours each. The other time here and there as little things. Finishing touches.

Several years ago I saved an old well built machine from certain destruction and just held onto it. (pack rat) Less than $20.00 in parts and a little TLC and I have a nice workhorse for little expense. Nothing fancy, but no troubles. The seams are triple stitched. That's a lot of passes through the machine. I wouldn't recommend trying it without a sturdy one. Hope that helps.

Norm