What's 17 feet long, blue, and textured like an alligator?

[Mike Vacanti]

I had the same problem with paint not drying over West System epoxy. After I scraped off the soft primer (a West Marine store brand) I bit the bullet and bought Interlux 404/414 epoxy primer. This stuff dried very hard within a day. I then topcoated with Interlux Brightsides. I wouldn't use the Brightsides again, it scratches very easily, but I would use the 404/414 again. It wasn't terribly expensive, about 25.00 a quart. Its' worst feature was the god awful smell, definitely use a good respirator and lots of ventilation.

[Frank Hagan]

I agree wholeheartedly that it's best to use the manufacturer's recommended finish. My problem has been that I've been unable to determine what the manufacturer (West Systems) recommends - I've been unable to find any recommendation of a brand that works well. I've looked over the website' date=' checked the printed materials that I've come across, and called the company. The only answer I was able to get was to use anything BUT one-part epoxy (that was from the phone call).

[/quote']

They are careful not to recommend anything. Kern Hendricks of System Three used to correspond on the rec.boats.building newsgroup, and he said the problem was that the paint manufacturers will change a formulation "without warning", so a recommendation today for a particular paint could be obsolete tomorrow. Before they started selling their own latex paint (er, single linear water based stuff), they used to recommend the "scratch test" indicated above.

I guess the problem is not just the amine blush, but that the epoxy and paint can inter-react; something from the epoxy itself prevents the paint from curing fully. All water based paints avoid that, if I remember what Kern was saying correctly. Some oil based paints will have a problem.

[Howard]

Geez....post something...walk away and all H breaks loose!

I hope it didn't sound like I was dinging Ken for using cheap paint. That wasn't my intent. It was more along the lines of we know the LPU's do work and others may not, so why take the chance? And I also understand the objection to the marine markup, which is more along the lines of it's priced that high....not because it's that much better, but because they can. They think folks are suckers and will buy it anyway....and they may be right.

But along this subject line, when paints are discussed, I see guys (and again I am NOT talking about Ken) shun the LPU's and other high cost paints at $40 per quart and up. Yes that is expensive relative to other paints, but at $60 per sheet, marine plywood is also expensive compared to the cheap stuff at the box stores. But it's the best product, so we buy it. I've never understood the logic of buying all the best materials, spending hundreds of hours of labor on it, and then slapping on cheap whatever at the end. But that's me.

One class of paints I never hear much about is the auto finishes. They are said to be very good and can come in all sorts of colors and are not all that expensive. How about a nice metal flake pink?

Back to the water and wrinkles, I have also washed epoxy between coats, after sanding, and have wondered how long you have to wait until it's perfectly dry. Water will be trapped in those microscopic sanding grooves, slowly evaporating. I would think at least an hour in the sun and maybe overnight inside a coolish building. If you painted when it was still wet, or even slightly wet, I don't know how long it would take to show up, or even what the affect might be. It would be interesting to find out.

BTW...with the System 3 water based paint, you can thin it with water, so moisture and humidity wouldn't be and issue. Cool and damp is the best time to paint with it.

[Ken_Potts]

I guess I'll pick up some 404 414 - It's good to hear that somebody else has had success with it over West Systems epoxy in particular.

Howard - I hope nobody took your comments to be a criticism of me - I know I certainly didn't take it that way.

Oyster - Have you tried Kilz over West Systems or was it another brand of epoxy (am I sounding a little gunshy here? ) I'm glad to hear you made it through your afternoon ordeal. It really makes me feel fortunate to know that while you were going through all that I was safe and snug in front of an air-conditioned CAD station.

[Guest]

West Sytem was the very first resin that I coated with my first can of Kilz. One thing to keep in mind when using brightsides, is that most generic primers does not always work under it. Brightsides has a distinctive problem of mildewiing over just any oil base primer. This has not been the case over Kilz, BUt I will never use Brightsides again, ever, as its not worth the price of admission to me for the costs.

Now back to work as I must catch the afternoon breeze, and the new run of spots that has shown up on the last of the tides.

[Ken_Potts]

Your stoicism is an example to us all.

[Guest]

Drop me a line of you care to call in sick today. Ken. Remember weekend boating was made for the insane, so I boat more during the weekdays.

[Ken_Potts]

I wish I could today - I've got too many time-sensitive things happening today though. Thanks for the invite.

I am feeling like maybe all this stess might compromise my immune system some time next week though... I know - We're rapidly running out of good weather.

Isn't there an oil-based (original) and a water based Kilz? I don't think I've used the water based stuff - My guess is you're using the oil-based. Did I get it right?

[Ken_Potts]

Hey Oyster,

Tuesday looks good for me - Monday may be workable. Keep me updated if you're looking for ballast either of those days (I hope Wilma stays away).

I picked up some Kilz today.

[Guest]

Reports has it that rain is moving in even without the hurricane, the better part of next week. THis week was pretty close to heaven, especially this time of year. This weekend I have family issues with a band function for my son. So the boating fun has ceased for me.

Is the can white with just red letters? Thats the oil base stuff which is the choice under enamel..

[Ken_Potts]

I can't begin to describe how it felt to be at work today knowing that I could have been better places (you're a good influence). Unfortunately I HAD to be there (normally it doesn't matter if things slip for a day, or even two). Ah the choices we make...

It has been pretty incredible this week here too - I'm used to the NC State Fair being the beginning of the reliably cold weather but we've been having record high temps for the past few weeks. It looks like that may be over now. Big Northerlies coming...

Enjoy the band function. One day I'll be good enough to be in a be in a band (no I won't)

The can has red letters and it is white but it has a sort of orange fade on the bottom - It is Kilz exterior oil-based primer, pigmented white. It was a choice between that or the oil-based interior primer (I think that was the one that was red-on-white).

Well if you find yourself in need of crew unexpectedly you've got my number.

Looks like you're making good progress on the new project.

[Guest]

Yes you want the oil base primer, the one with the red letters on the white can. I spoke of the one in my above post.

I do not know of the orange bottom can. it maybe that there has been one that is now called exterior, but I still just buy the original can. Pleas let me know how this new can with the orang bottom bonds to your epoxy.

Is the can white with just red letters? Thats the oil base stuff which is the choice under enamel.

p.s. a gallon cost anywhere from 9 to 11 bucks and don't worry about "for interior only" on the face of the can.

I got out today and took a trip to Carrot Island and the inlet. Its hard to explain the frustration of coming back to the dock after six hours of 10 to 12 knots of salt air in the face, dry clothes and bilges.

[Ken_Potts]

An update on the paint:

I primed another area with Kilz exterior oil-based and after a week or so I did a scratch test with cellophane tape and it passed nicely.

The original problem area was left to cure and it seems to have cured nicely below the wrinkles although I haven't done the scratch test on it. I'm going to leave the wrinkles and as the seasons pass and I re-paint they will eventually go away. My boat will get prettier with age. I'm a patient sort of guy when it gets me out of scrubbing with solvent or sanding.