Wavy Weave

[Mike Henderson (Oregon)]

I've been glassing my hull and filling the weave this week. I'm using 6 oz. cloth and epoxy. I'm rolling filling coats on with a foam roller (unfilled epoxy) and then tipping it off with plastic coated playing cards to get the bubbles out. There are about 3 coats so far and I'm noticing what appears to be a wavy/orange peel pattern in the surface rather than the smooth finish I was expecting. The weave isn't totally filled yet. Will the wave even out with more coats or is this something than can only be corrected with lots of scraping and sanding? Or, is the wave a sign of something seriously wrong?

[Guest Lars (Denmark)]

I am in the process of building a weekender and after 5 month of work right now in the middle of the project of glassing the deck, cockpit and cabin. I do it in the opposite way because it takes a lot of manpower (and beer) to turn the boat over;-)

I find it very hard to sand a thick layer of epoxy. The glasfiber weave is just filled with one layer of epoxy (if it don't stick proper to the plywood I put on a little extra epoxy). To fill out the weave I use an ordinary (waterproof) putty. Putty is easy and fast to sand to sand and gives a smooth surface if you use a belt sander. On the other hand Putty is cheaper and healthier to work with than epoxy.

If it of interest, I will put in a photo of my boat. I will take the photograph from a long distance, so you don't see all the mistakes I have been doing. From the photos put in by other builders I can see the what I fine work US builders have done :wink:

/Lars

(Lars Joergen Hansen, lars_joergen_hansen@yahoo.com danish Weekender builder)

[Guest Lars]

Sorry!

By mistake I send two messages, but the correct e-mail address is lars_joergen_hansen@yahoo.com

[tdrown]

Flipping the boat seems like it would be a lot of hard work, but I did it with with just one other person. Its easier than one might think. I have video footage of it that I could put on the Internet if need be.

[Mike Henderson (Oregon)]

Lars,

What is this ordinary water proof putty you are using? I am a rank novice with just about anything marine so nothing is ordinary. It's all new to me.

Does anyone have experience with filling the weave with unfilled epoxy? Am I just in for a lot of scraping and sanding and really nothing more to worry about?

[ken connors]

after 3 coats, you should have filled the weave. i would give it a good sanding, and recoat. i dont know about tipping with playing cards(youre not using the ace of spades are you?), but ive had good luck with a fresh foam brush.

[Mike Henderson (Oregon)]

Yeah ken, and the Joker to.

I just had them around because I was going to use them to squegee with but they were too limp. :oops: I don't know why the foam rollers I'm using leave bubbles. Not many though and easy to fix with a swipe of the ace of spades.

The weave is nearly filled so I'll probably give one more good coat before I start sanding.

[P Doug (WA)]

[quote name="Lars (DenmarkIf it of interest' date=' I will put in a photo of my boat.

[/quote]

Lars, Please post a picture of your boat. I think everyone on the forum loves to see pictures of the projects being built. I know I sure do and they keep people inspired.

[Brent]

For what it is worth, I put six coats of epoxy on over 6 oz cloth. One of the first coats included a small amount of filler. The end result after sanding was very smooth.

[Guest Anonymous]

How much epoxy did you use on 6 coats?

MikeM

[Guest Lars]

Hi Mike

Maybe I have used the word "ordinary" in a wrong way. I am by no means an expert. In fact I am a 101% amateur boat builder. Because I am not an boatbuilder, I have asked a friend (a real but old and retired boatbuilder) witch putty to use. There is a lot of marine putty on the marked, and it is often very expensive. I was told by my friend, that I could use "ordinary" (easy to get) urethan based putty. It is cheap, easy to sand and gives a smooth surface.

I can not tell if it persistent and of the right quality, because my boat is still in my backyard. So "don

[Mike Henderson (Oregon)]

I agree with Ray...keep it off your skin and everything will be okay

Lars, you might read the Epoxy Book put out by System Three.(an Epoxy Manufacturer here in the States) I think you can download it from the web. They say if used properly, It isn't dangerous. Working clean is the key. They have some good tips for working clean with the product and also an invitation to take your Epoxy business somewhere else if you would rather not work clean. So, I think one could get pretty sick if you're not careful.

I bought a can of Bondo and mixed up a test batch once, out in the garage. My wife smelled it in the house. In an instant, she was out there wondering what I was doing. That stuff is strong and I don't care for the smell either. I like the smell of epoxy for some reason. My wife doesn't, but it also isn't as strong.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Mike,

To get back to your original question about the wavy weave.

Adding successive layers and using a small tool (playing card) will only add to the uneveness of the layers.

If you want even layers that don't have such wavy characteristics you need a wide spreader and long even strokes. Unfortunately, once it is wavy, the only way to make it even is with either a scraper or sanding.

I would personally even it out with a good sharp cabinet scraper and a long board sander. Then apply the next layer of epoxy. I would use a good sandable filler with the next layer(s) and only just fill the weave. Building it up much beyond that won't really add anything to what you are doing except weight.

[Phil Gowans]

I've read about a technique to get a nice fair surface with epoxy. Use a V-notched trowel to apply epoxy with a lot of fillers (preferably with micro balloons to make sanding easier). Then sand the tips to a smooth surface. Fill the valleys and voila you have a fair surface. I haven't tried this yet but, it sounds like it should work quite well.

[Frank Hagan]

Foam rollers and bubbles: I had a lot of trouble with the 1/4" nap foam rollers I got from Home Depot. You can get foam rollers for use with epoxy from West Marine or RAKA; they have a very short, 1/8" or less nap to them, and don't produce bubbles.

I vote for trying to fill the low areas among the waves with epoxy first. Thicken it with microballons and use a large flexible plastic spreader ... my local AutoZone or Chief Auto Parts had one that was about 8" wide, for use with Bondo, and it worked great for thickened epoxy. Then you can try to sand it smooth afterwords. I always think its better to add to it, if possible, to even it out rather than spend the time sanding.

[Mike Henderson (Oregon)]

Frank,

HomeDepot...That's where I got these rollers. I have another 8 left over. Did you use them for paint? If so, How did they work with paint?

Adding microballons to the epoxy sounds good. I don't know of any place locally that sells this stuff in bulk so I'll order some. Or maybe I'll try West Marine since I need rollers anyway.

[Arnie Eaton]

In my limited experience, wavey glass in caused by to much epoxy on the first coat. With a lot of epoxy, the glass can "float" and with small squeeges will not even out. I found the best way is to roll on a very thin coat of resin and then lay the cloth over it and use a large rubber squeege to lay the glass smooth. You must use a slow hardener, let this coat set up BEFORE you do more epoxy. The glass now is anchored to the surface and filling the weave is much easier and will take a lot less resin.

[Frank Hagan]

Frank' date='

HomeDepot...That's where I got these rollers. I have another 8 left over. Did you use them for paint? If so, How did they work with paint?

Adding microballons to the epoxy sounds good. I don't know of any place locally that sells this stuff in bulk so I'll order some. Or maybe I'll try West Marine since I need rollers anyway.[/quote']

They work fine for latex paint, but I'm not sure about oil-based (thinner) paints. I did find I have to roll them a bit more slowly.

The very short nap rollers at West Marine are from West System Epoxy, I think. They also have the microballons, but they are a bit expensive. You might look up System 3 ... they are up there somewhere in the Pacific NW, and they sell things at prices a bit better than West Systems prices. I used RAKA because it was cheaper shipping, but without the shipping charges, System 3 might be the way to go for you.

[Mike Henderson (Oregon)]

Micro Ballons:

System 3 = $21.00 for a 5 QT Tub

West Sys = $21.60 for a 5 OZ size

Raka = #30.00 for 5 Lbs

I'll probably order from System 3 because I've been using their stuff and I like them but Raka looks cheaper to me.