MisterMoon

Yep.

I've experimented with a boom tent over the front cockpit. The easy way to do it is to attach the end of the boom to the mizzen snotter attachment point. One big problem with having a boom tent over the front cockpit is that it makes the boat sail around wildly at anchor owing to the excess windage up front. I nearly got whiplash during a thunderstorm last year!

Core Sounds do great in big winds. There's no need to think about reefing my CS17 until it's solidly blowing 15 knots. And the second reef comes in around 19 or 20. I would not think about making any changes to the rig until you've sailed it as designed.

Once you try a cat ketch, you'll wonder why you thought about changing. It's a very versatile rig and oh so handy. Banish the thought of 'improving' your boat. You will very likely compromise it in some way.

The big problem with rating planing dinghies like the CS17 is the rating changes a lot based on wind strength. The Portsmouth system tries to fix this by giving different ratings at different wind velocities. My guess for DPNs your CS17 goes like this: BF1-2 = 103, BF3= 99, BF4 = 95, where BF is the Beaufort wind scale. I've done a little PY racing against small cruisers in my CS-17. In light air <8-9 knots, you're going to get killed by a Catalina 22. But if it's blowing anywhere in the teens, you'll walk away from them on downwind and reaching legs. Catalina 22s rate 96 or so on the PY scale and 250+ in PHRF. My guess for a CS17 would be 270+ unless you live in area where it blows hard all the time.

The DPN will depend on wind strength. If your club is using just one number, you're going to have problems. My guess is above BF-4 it's 98 or so. BF-3 and below it's more like 101-103. These are not great light air boats.

All CS centerboards are offset. It's not at all noticeable underway. I personally favor decking over the boat in the way of CB, it's just much more comfortable that way with a big sprawling space forward. Chuck, I noticed you went with full length coamings on the cockpit. Interesting choice, considering I'm planning on planing my small ones flush with the deck. I guess you don't plan on hiking at all? Also, is the top of the CB case going to be sealed inside the cabin? My CB case spits a lot of water when it gets rough.

We were in CO earlier this summer. Driving along Blue Mesa lake in SW CO had me longing for my boat. Picture flat water, strong breezes, and fantastic scenery, perfect CS-17 conditions! Problem is that's a loooong way from the Denver area.

Sailing to a downwind landing on a dock is one of the hardest things you'll do. My usual MO is to crash into it and then drop the sails. Works every time!

Just lovely. I agree on the sprits, better to make them too long than barely long enough. I've already replaced my originals with longer ones. It might be best for new builders to wait until after they have their sails to make the sprit booms. Seating up front: I decked over the footwells in the front with removable panels. There's not enough foot room around the centerboard in any case and having the big sprawling space up front makes the boat infinitely more comfortable.

On Bandaloop, there is a large inspection hatch in the forward bulkhead that would allow one to go forward to through bolt, albeit with some difficulty. Not having any access at all to that area is a bad idea. I hate hate hate that my boat does not have a hatch on the front deck. When it cools off, I plan to refinish and repaint my boat along with adding a hatch in the front deck.

While I was on a 5 day 4 night cruise on my CS17, I found myself thinking a lot about this new CS20 and how it would be ideal for what I want to do with my boat. Is the cabin going to big enough to sleep in? Also, I'm interested in how you are going to do the cockpit arrangement. I'd want a large bridgedeck forward of the mizzen and a comparatively small footwell behind the thwart. I find on both the CS17 and CS20 the centerboard clutters up the forward footwells too much to be comfortable. It's nicer to have a big flat up there instead of the narrow wells IMO. Ideally there would be easily accessible and lockable stowage under that bridge deck. I keep saying I'm done building boats, but this one may lure me out of retirement...

These boats like a bit of power to get through the waves, so it's important when going upwind to leave enough sail out to give you the oomph to crash on through. You will get wet, but that's half the fun. If you were only on the double-reefed mizzen in big waves, I'm not surprised you couldn't make any progress to windward. The windage of the furled main isn't incosequential either. On this past Saturday we sailed across Pensacola Pass and up Pensacola bay in a nasty chop that formed against the tide. The wind started out pretty brisk early in the morning, but was down to 12-15 knots by the time I started out. Knowing it was going to be rough water, full sail was called for. We blasted through the nasty chop without any trouble although it was a very wet ride. It's just the nature of the beast that these boats are wet upwind in waves. If you aren't getting wet in those conditions, you probably aren't going anywhere. See the speeds between mile 80 and 90 on this site for the nasty bit. http://www.spotadventures.com/trip/view/?trip_id=304490 I've sailed my 17 upwind in 25 gusting to 30 with two reefs in both the main and mizzen. The boat was easily balanced and easy to control and capable of handling even more breeze in that configuration. FWIW, don't usually put in the first reef until it's solidly over 15knots and have sailed reasonably comfortably unreefed at 18 with gusts over 20. On the Beaufort scale, force 5 is 17-21 knots (19-24 mph). I'd probably go single reefed if I was looking at an upwind day. If I had a long reach or run and I was feeling sporty, I'd go full sail. Having sailed the boat a bunch of miles in the last few months, I no longer have any desire intstall a center mast step on mine.

Going to get it rigged in time for the FL120? I think your boat makes mine look positively agricultural!

I just got one of these: http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2157&utm_campaign=shop_comp&utm_source=google&utm_medium=buy_now&utm_term=goog_product_2157 So far I like it very well.

Motors are nice for going through drawbridges against wind and current. My mizzen sheets are much more apt to foul on the stern cleats than on the motor. I do strongly suggest getting a bracket istead of hanging the OB directly on the transom. Otherwise it is in the way of the mizzen sheet no matter what you do. However, I do encourage trying to live without a motor because it makes you a much better sailor. I could live without my motor, but I have to admit it's really nice having one when I need to be on a schedule. I also think where you sail makes a big difference. If you've got consistent winds and little currents to deal with it's a lot easier than if you live in a place were the winds are fluky and prone to die or yu have to deal with strong tidal currents. In those cases having a motor is often the difference between going boating and not going boating. As far as rowing your CS17, it rows like a sailboat which is to say not very well. I've rowed mine for a couple of miles at a stretch only a couple of times and I found it to be pretty awful compared to boats designed for rowing. But I may be spoiled becuase I've owned a really good rowboat one time and tend to compare everything to it.

Mine has a 20" (long) shaft. I'd have to go and look at my mount to see if it cold be set low enough to accomodate a short shaft. I'll try and remember to do this later this evening.

Hi Bill, My boat came with too short 3/8" dacron for both sheets. I replaced both with some much longer 1/4" Sta-set I already had. I don't find the thin rope to be an issue at all. Sheeting forces are pretty light on these boats. Some day I'd like to replace the main with some 3/8" but it's not a priority. Half-inch is overkill. I only have a downhaul on my rudder. I'm planning to replace the clamcleat with one of the automatic release ones sold by Duckworks. I've run aground on mine and had hard time pulling the rope out of the cleat, there was so much pressure on it. A cam cleat would be better than what I've got. I don't see much of a need for a rudder hold-up. It doesn't draw very much when down so it's going to be rare that you sail in waters where you'd only need it partially up. Because the rudder floats, you can adjust it's depth just fine with the downhaul.

Agree with everything Wes says above. The *only* reason I have a 6 hp motor is because that's what came with the boat. It's got maybe 15 hours on it and I can't bring myself to sell it.

Too late. Half inch transom with 2-by framing would be what I suggest. I strongly suggest getting an external motor mount so that it does not interfere with the mizzen sheeting.

He mentioned increased freeboard, not deadrise. This looks interesting. I'm wondering about the need for water ballast, though. I can see where it would be nice sometimes but not always. I'd love for my 17 to be self bailing!

I think just about if not all boats are helpless downwind in light air. It is faster to "tack downwind" (gybe back and forth). It varies a good bit as to what is the best TWA between designs. But for light winds most fall in the range of 150º -135º from true wind. Yeah, but boats with taller rigs are less helpless. Maybe a log canoe style topsail is the answer? Um.... Maybe not...

Your observations are about spot on. The CS17 is pretty helpless downwind in light air. I think it's a combination of both sail area and mast height. THis is one reason I want a staysail. I was sailing today in company with Scott Widmier's turbo Suncat (huge, non standard rig on his boat.) When it got really light downwind and reaching, he had the best of me. Once we saw over 10, I had to spill air or overtrim for him to stay close. The standard CS17 rig really comes into it's own in 12-18. The first reef goes in for upwind sailing at around 16 for me, but I've weathered gusts over 20 without too much drama. If the water's flat and it's blowing 20-25, keep it full sail for a heck of a fun ride downwind. I was pretty conservative for this year's EC/UM, however. I stayed double reefed about the entire time. I didn't want be caught out with too much sail in the middle of the night when it was getting colder and colder. It seemed and still seems rational to me. I love the ketch rig, though. What's amazing is how easily you can maneuver in close quarters under sail power along just by adjusting the trim of the main and mizzen. It's great on a starting line with sloops becuase you can just spin and spin and then take off.

I tried emailing Carla some time ago and never got a response. I guess I'll try again...

...where do I start? Looking for recommendations for sail makers, lightly used ones, etc. Thanks, JB