Tim Diebert

I used to sail and fish on the SW end of Vancouver Island and got to see all the aquatic wildlife regularly. I miss them varmints. Close encounters with Killer Whales (Orca) (scared the bejeepers out of me :shock: ), the multitudes of seabirds I knew only a few names of, lots of seals and sea lions....but my favorite were the Otters. Floating on their backs eating....and rolling over to clean their table. Friendly and happy looking critters. Although, most fisherman that kept their boats at dock didn't like them much as they would absolutely reek havoc with the cockpits of the boats...interiors too, if they got in. Kind of like Searacoons.....

So that would explain why when using your formula, brass ends up being a negative (or non) floatation material. Nice. So then 2 inch foam will provide 5.33 cubic feet of floatation material. So 330 lbs of floatation less the weight of the foam in fresh water for 4x8 sheet of 2 inch, and 341 lbs in salt. Right? Figured that out all by myself. I also figured out if I fill the entire cabin with foam blocks it might float if swamped...considering all the gear I carry around, the beer, the giant outboard and that big box of lead. Maybe I should use my sailing mentors method......don't use floatation...don't screw up...if you do, you loose the boat. Keeps ya on yer toes that way.

That rascal just gets gorgiouser and gorgiouser Mike. What seam compound did you use? and how are you going to sand it off? Or, how did you sand it off?

I don't have the patience for searching the site for this info....I know it was covered at some point. Hell, it took me a week just to remember to remember.... What is the buoyancy factor in a given chunk of rigid foam....like the big sheets of 2" stuff at the lumberyard. You know...per square foot... Beaker, you should have these numbers ready and waiting.....

Good one Doc. Thanks for pointing those designs out. Actually, the Wild Onion is a sharpie but the page I found provides a link to Wild Oats, which is basically the same boat but done as a V bottomed hull. The rigs are interchangable. Now that's very close to what I had in mind, just a big bigger. Cool. I have always loved Atkins stuff.

Bumping this thread back up to the top. It has been some time since the initial thread and I am still thinking this may be the best way to go. The coolest aspect that most appeals to me is that I can use my existing rig and sails, the rudder system, motor mount and motor, all the running rigging, the new hatch, port lights and the current trailer. :shock: Man, that saves a wicked ass amount of time. I am actually thinking of getting into this much sooner rather than later now. Another aspect (excuse me whilst I mumble away...) of this project I am messing with is; I stumbled upon a series of Newsletter articles by designer Jim Michalak explaining the fundamentals of designing and drawing your own hull. It is not quite completed yet....the series that is. I have books on this subject that have basically just encouraged me to forget the whole deal....but Jim's explanations are very clear and fall nicely into the KISS principal. If you know his work, much of it is also quite simple. Although I plan to go with a multi chine method. The 17 is about right for what I have in mind, but I would want some more freeboard for both interior room and to compensate for the added weight of house and ballast. (I love the feel of ballast, what can I say). Hey, check this out...this is complete heresy.....I photoshoped Rob's 17 to have about 6" more freeboard. It is basically quite ugly as it just adds to the upper sheer panel. But if you were ever wondering....

the Wooden Boat Forum. Norm died a few days ago. Quite suddenly. He seemed to be a chap of the finest kind and although I never said a 'word' to him, I will miss him. :cry:

Great pix once again Rob. Thanks for the link. Looks like lots of wind for your 2nd day. Did you get any measured wind speeds? The colour of the water is amazing. Those wee flys look like they would drive a man to drinkin.

Right. A damn fine idea I say. As Doc pojnts out, anything to prevent beer spillage is worth the effort. (I just designed an new gimballed beer holder myself :drinking: ) The technical aspect can easily be worked out. CLR vs. CE could be done in no time giving you an optimum location, size and shape for the keels. A substantial keelson would certainly be in order, through bolts and all the usual. Minor details. Ballast is a given. Although, depending on what design you choose, you may not want much as you have the option of getting it down nice and low. I have 250lbs in my weekender Shane...Ray does a little more I think. I just looked back, and it seems you are on about the Pocket Cruiser design. I should have read that more carefully, This is quite a beamy cat boat-ish type and may not need any additonal ballast. I can think of only one PC owner on this board...(Scott Windermere..?) and I have never heard of anyone ballasting one before. Though there is zero reason why you could not, or should not. A good topic for discussion. Having gone and looked at the design on the Stevensons site, that is a right cute rascal. OK buddy. When are you starting? We are all waiting to give you support here. 8) Isn't winter just coming in for you now? A great time to stock the fridge and get to work. Has anyone got an image of the Pocket Cruiser's profile/sail plan?

Oh....right.....I hadn't thought of that. My motor is on one of those stainless, springloaded rascals that puts the motor further aft. Yours would be hard up against the transom more or less... My Bad. :oops:

Now why would you wanna go and do that Dave? :shock: If you can lock yer motor in the dead ahead position, then just steer with the tiller or wheel or whatever. I do it this way with my giant gas motor....I would assume it would work the same way with one of those little electron jobs. I just leave the tiller untended, adjust the motor until the boat tracks perfectly, then steer with the rudder. The only time I use the motor to steer is in real tight situations. Man, those renderings kill me.

Jeff, sorry man, I missed this. The wicking is the cotton string. I use it under any under water fastener that has a washer. ie: a pan head screw and washer or a washer under a bolt head...or even under a carriage bolt head. The string has to be fine enough to be able to break with your hand. I wind it clockwise around the bolt shaft just up against the washer. Build up a 1/8" kind of gasket. Snap it off...run a bead of polysulphide around there, bed the sucker down. If you wind it clockwise (whilst holding the bolt upside down, head down, threads towards you) it will not unravel if you manage to turn the washer when tightening. I have no idea why it is called a 'wicking', sounds like the last thing you would want to call something that is supposed to prevent wicking.... This old shipwright I worked for at the time was third generation shipwright and he was in his 70's when I worked for him. Some of the terms he came up with were old world british. Spent most of my time with him being yelled at, learning to understand his lingo and peeling him off boat owners he wanted to toss off the work float.

Frank. So do you then tip the trailer back to drain? Being at the aft end of the cockpit will make it on the 'high' end won't it?

Fanbloodytastic Bob. I love everything about this install. The wee winch is a beauty. And it's 'podium'. Are you keeping this boat for yourself? Thanks for sharing this with us. I love your work and postings.

Great info Oyster. Your boat is looking fiiine. I am also with Barry on this one. A grate makes real good sense. Personally, the cockpit sole is so covered in sand and dirt and line and beer cans and stuff that the easier it is to get at and clean...the better. And I am for sure going to put one of those drains in soon. Washing these boats down is a nightmare, everything ends up oin the cockpit benches or the sole and then you have get it out. I have a small bucket and sponge for that for now....but a drain would be handy for sure.

I gather you are thinking of permanent bilge keels Shane? Not a retractable dagger or center board type? Personally, I see that as a great idea and absolutly doable. A good opportiunity to add a bit of ballast down good and low as well. Plus the drying out feature. Downside would be the added difficulty retrieving the boat to trailer. If you were going to leave the boat on a drying anchorage, or even at float, it would be great. If you were going to dry sail it, it might not be as cool. But it would get the case out of the boat. I think they are very practical in some folks cases....and it would be easy to do.

The way I figure it... it is way more fun for us, the WB forum and probably a dozen other boat forums...that Mr. D does not ever build a boat...any boat. He would be too busy to create his articulate masterpices of English language...and we would all be the poorer for it. So keep buying up those plans mate, keep dreaming.....build that house for the poopy possum. And we will keep enjoying the most entertaining guy on the web. :thumbsup:

I have done many teak soles, teak decks over ply and traditional corked softwood decks etc. I will try and help you out as well. I don't know what the current state of the art is, but I can tell you how I do them. You will need to be able to screw the pieces down....so in the case of a VAC or WE, you will need to make your cockpit sole thicker so you don't have a studded boat bottom. I would suggest gluing in an additional chunk of say 1/2 or 3/4 ply. That could be bedded down in epoxy without fasteners....but whatever you do, it should be water tight from above. Hopefully you could do this during construction, not after the fact. As Barry said, forget using a laminate, and I can't imagine that you would be able to buy flooring to do this...maybe....but I never have. I use solid wood so I can make it exactly the size I want. Start will rough 4/4 material and resaw for an eventual 3/8 or better. You should have a perimeter of the same material. Then the rest fits in between (Dave render him up an image will you.....) The whole thing gets built dry and screwed down (not all the screws, just to hold everything tight), then taken up to be permanently bedded and screwed down. The planks should be 3/8" minimum, 1/2" better. Some places that sell a lot of Teak with have material just for decking. The thing is, you need to mill a rebate in one edge of every mating edge, butt joints and long edges. Rebate 1/8 X 1/8". This groove gets taped off, then primed and then filled with a bedding compound. We used Thiacol a two part material.... I heard Sikaflex makes something in a tube does the same thing. Has to be let dry, then sanded off. Only thing ever worked was a circular sander. Not easy or fun. A messy job and hard on the knees. As Barry said, oil is the best finish...or leave it alone. Don't forget to get a nice tight plug set. You need to flush plug all those holes. Oh, and if you never milled much Teak.....you are in for some surprises. :shock: This is just enough info to get you started, if you actually decide to do it I can help you out more if you like.....or whatever. Have fun. I just painted the cockpit...well the whole damn deck of my WE and I could see the cockpit sole being a painful spot to be spending any amount of time....my back is tweaking on me just thinking about it. Oh....wait a minute. Maybe you could build the whole thing as a unit (on ply) on the bench... that is prefit into the bottom of the cockpit...leaving a way to seal the edges once glued down. There's a thought.... :idea: :roll: That would be a lot easier.

...you guys did notice that in Shanes reply to Jake that "I mean OF COURSE Im going to build me a boat...." a paragraph later he mentions buying yet another set of plans. I think our Aussie buddy is an inveterate plan buyer and don't hold yer breath for anything 3D to show up any time soon. :wink: :roll:

I will jump in on this one and plop my opinion and method down. I have bedded down hundreds of below and above the waterline fittings. I learned from an old cogger that was beyond fussy. If on new work...wood. Seal the hole edges always a good thing....but we never did it in new construction or on new holes in old construction. Either in glass or wood. Not to say this is right or wrong. I have only a little experience with the 3M products, what I have used worked great. But my main experience has been with Boatlife Caulk and various sikaflex products. The cure time and set time works for me. And I can usually find these products around. Use enough bedding compound so that you get squeeze out. Torque it down, scrape off access and clean up tight to joint with a rag and paint thinners. If you are using bolts, run the bolts through, then 'wick them' with good fluffy cotton string. build up a good sized lump right under your plate on the bolt, break it off. You can also first wick under the washer of the bolt head. When tightening, try to move only the nut. Get lots of goop right around the wicking and the fitting and bed her down, clean up. I do the same with through hulls. Trick is to use plenty of bedding so it is totally covered down there. I like Barry's pre-torque and post-torque method, never done it myself, but it sounds like a good plan.

Thanks Doc. Looks much nicer now that it is varnished and the transom is basically all done. My crew is giving me the, "Quite finding more projects to do and just get this thing in the water....I wanna go sailing!".

I was very impressed with the Potter 19 on that video tape I mentioned Frank. I bet you are loving that rascal huh? Looks like about the perfect trailer sailer. I enjoyed hearing Mr. Tetlows story of his crossing as well.

You could try these folks.... Long Island Yacht Club is conveniently located at: 307 Little East Neck Road South Babylon, New York 11702 (631) 669-0129 (Membership) (631) 669-3270 (Office) Halsey's Marina 423 Three Mile Harbor HC Road East Hampton NY (631) 324-5666 Jackson's Marina P.O. Box 998 6 Tepee St. Hampton Bays, NY 11946 Phone | 631.728.4220 Fax | 631.728.4504 info@jacksonsmarina.com

To take mine off, you lock the rudder in the down position, turn a wee stainless 'lock' on the transom and lift the whole shebang right off...walk into the shop and hang it on the wall up high right out of the way. That's why I have been locking the rudder down, so I have something to hang on to to lift it up there. So cool. I have been working on the laz area all week and nothing is in my way. So cool. That won't be quite so free an area once the motor lifter bracket thingee is back on. You know, you could easily adapt a set of stock gudgeons to fit on the stock stern post. Then you would not have to remove it (a pretty big job). I know I took mine off, but it is not necessary. Could save you some time. These are the ones I used, from Duckworks, they are extra heavy duty versions. See, you could just bend those rascals 90 degrees and Bobs yer Uncle. They have a whole department of this great hardware at good prices with excellent delivery. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/p-g/index.htm The old traveller discussion. Yes, you are going to loose your center line stern deck mainsheet spot. When I did mine I also considered all the possibilities. What I came up with was: 1. On a gaffer, a traveller is not necessary, nice, but not really needed. I think they are best suited for those close winded pointed headed sailer guys. 2. It is real nice to be able to raise the tiller when required. 3. All can be remedied with the sheeting arrangement I use, or with a mid boom/bridge deck system Ray and I were taking about a while back. Then you get your pie and get to eat it too. So many projects and running out of sailing time. It has blown steady here all damn day...and my boat sits on the trailer not ready yet. :cry

Oh yes....I noticed those bumps around my lake. Very irritating I can tell you. Makes sailing real challenging. But they do not stop wind...oh no. They merely store it up somewhere and toss it at you from multiple directions, with no warning. 99% of the time the wind direction is 360 or 180 and nothing in between...pretty well always. Then once or twice a season....those stored up rascals, with the force of God come over the top of the west mountains and nail you flat! Like those wind shears that slam airliners into the tarmac. Not for pussies these wild western mountain lakes my friend. Takes mucho gronicals to tame the mighty wind Gods in these here parts. Although, a nice steady...from the same direction wind...for even an hour or two would be nice. I was just thinking this morning as I was waking up that about three days a season, on that lake, I get WHOLE days of steady 15-20 knots winds. HEAVEN. On a sunny 90 degree day in July, it is as close to bliss as I ever could get.....combined with cool frosty beverages of choice....of course. Usually, I get 180 degree wind shifts three times a sailing day.....until that Wester decides to unleash it fury on all who brave the mountain lakes. :evil: :!: