Tim Diebert

http://sfsurvey.com/photos/sail/index.htm

Fantastic Mike! A one of a kind masterpeice for sure. I would like to thank you for posting the entire process here. I have really enjoyed watching. I have learned a lot. I hope she performs as well as you intended. The sailing images will be great..... and looked forward to.

Mr. Frog. Nice to know a fellow adoptee. Though my boat was actually 'finished' ....or I should say completed to plan....when I got her. Brand new in fact. Although I removed the wheel steering right away and converted to tiller, the transom port remained. By the 2nd occasion of discovering a gallon or more of water in the boat after retrieval, it was determined how it was happening. While the boat was tied at dock awaiting retrieval, waves were slapping against the transom and entering through the tiller port. (My usual launch ramp is at a very poor spot on the lake) If a person needs this hole, they should really find a way to put a gasket of sorts over it. I completely eliminated the hole in my boat. I am with you on the lazerette issue as well. While I am working on the transom right now, I plan on sealing in that compartment....or rather making it so water cant transfer from the laz fwd. I have a large circular deck hatch on the fwd laz bulkhead (where the wheel steering shaft would be) for easy access of regularly used items. And I have a larger hatch on the peak of the deck arch as well. This hatch has varied over the time I have owned the boat, but the one I have liked the most had a flat top and fids around....and makes a grand location for a cup of coffee or beer etc when at anchor. My tiller raises up and locks in a vertical position. This hatch also makes it possible to perform any repairs or mods within the laz neighborhood.

Thanks for keeping us posted on this Frank. It was very exciting there for a while. I would love to be able to see for myself what damage was actually done. Perhaps there will be a damage report appear somewhere eventually. It would also be nice to eventually find out what actually went wrong.

I bought a set from the Stevensons and am very happy with them. I also bought some of the good quality poly tarp from Dave Gray at Poly Sail and was very impressed with the quality of this stuff vs. lumberyard polytarp. I made a lapper out of it.

Interesting...kind of the same idea, only in wood. That would work great. I had been using a rope 'step' when required. It was fine for me, but my mate found it awkward and challenging. We are fortunate in that our lake has the warmest water in Canada, and we swim almost as much as we sail. This new ladder will be put to good use.

I just took delivery of my new transom ladder. I wanted to wait until I actually had this thing in my hands and was able to get it on the transom before I said anything. I looked high and low for something that would fit and not interfere, as well as reach down below the water line enough to allow Daphne and I easy access from the water. The thing fits like a charm. Nice wide foot steps, all aluminum and stainless. Stows neatly out of the way....held in place with a very clever velcro strap. http://www.bartswatersports.com/catalog.asp?C=167&category=Boat+Ladders+and+Swim+Platforms&P=9830&product=Folding+Transom+Boat+Ladder An OK price and real good folks to do business with.

A good thread over on the Wooden Boat forum. A couple of videos and an areal view of the harbour. Nice neighbourhood Frank. I am thinking they may be attempting (again) to get her off right about now. http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=003896 Keep us posted if you can. Amazing thing is after being pounded on that beach for this long, the salvor crew says there appears to be no damage of the hull. Any water inside came through deck hatches....a well built boat.

I would just like to point out that most folks are using basic lumber for their keels. Basic from the standpoint that, regardless of species, it is almost certainly flat sawn or through and through. When this is the case, not matter what, that lumber will move...and when it does there is no layer of glass that will hold it back....also the addition of moisture will just send it travelling. When laminating solid lumber together in such large sizes and as wide as is required in this case, the three laminates should be quartersawn. Everything should be jointed flat and thickness planed so you have perfect mating surfaces. If you are gluing it together and hope for that glue to be the main bond, you will need good heavy and flat plattens and plenty of pressure to clamp the sucker all together. For such large glue ups I have used spring battens between the layup and a fixed upper surface...(shop cieling...an underside of another heavy boat....a beam etc) Personally, I would want such a thing backed by mechanical fasteners as well as glue. I also would not glass, but whatever, a personal choice more or less. If you choose to not glass the keel, I would not glass up to the keel on either side...but rather glass the bottom then attach keel. And knowing the order of how these rascals go together...that ain't really going to tbe possible. Also, I recon this keel (glassed or no) would be fine on rollers and not crush (even if a softer material) if a metal shoe was installed. I used some 2" X 1/4" copper. Just some observations and opinionated opinions. More random info to add to the confusion. Perhaps of use to someone that might be starting to build...? Sorry to hear of your troubles Phil.....but your boat looks wonderful. Some good looking work there for sure. Oh, and I second what Yellowtail said, the heat gun is a great help in removing stuck glass. I have done it many times myself. A super tool to have around the shop. Good luck with it.

My addled ADD brain sees things differently than you regilr folks. I am always first drawn to shapes and colors, then eventually words. So don't mind me.

Oh, and yes.....I have also been considering doing a radical alteration to the the hull to create more beam aft. Ray and I have discussed this at times. I am with him on this one. I see it as a potentially worthwhile and interesting mod. Just the thought of the possibility of an increase in speed off wind is worth the price of admission. The side benefits (to my mind) would be a slight amount of additional stowage (or buoyancy), more room in the cockpit. But the real advantages for me would be a potentially stiffer hull form, potential speed advantage and the opportunity to change a whole lot that bothers me about the cockpit arrangement and construction details chosen by the previous owner. Maybe next year..........

Frank, I am with you on that one. I am sure the differences could not be with even a radical rake difference. Moving the mast a lot (angle-wise) would at best move the CE 6" maybe. I have always chalked all of these issues up to the differences in humans and their experiences, the interesting 'magic' nature of these boats and most importantly, alien intervention. Oh, and I do use the Stevenson sails as well. I just go by how my boat is working and make things up as I go along from there. Just one dagger board trunk, but made long enough that I have lots of fore and aft movement available. Without actual measured drawing to work from (and not willing to make some), I did not want to take a chance that I would get the right spot first go. Also, I had planned on changing the rig a bit and that would have an effect on the CLR. This can be seen on the webpage link below. Yes, it would cause additional slippage if I had not replaced the removed area with a much larger and more effective daggerboard foil elsewhere. The keel aspect of a sailboat is most functional for points of sail from a beam reach on up. Down hill from a beamer you can have very little keel and be just dandy....it is actually prefered by many. (less drag) My work is here: http://www.timtone.com Greg. My mods (up until last season) are shown here: http://www.timtone.com/tt/ttphotos/PhotosSailing2.htm

Every time Jacob posts....I think it is Frank. The Avatar twins. I could make a few additions here Jacob....as I am sure many here might have suspected :wink: I would respond to this topic from a entirely different angle than most, if not all, of the fine folks on this forum. I did not choose the Weekender, it chose me. A friend of mine build his WE one winter, sailed it once, scared the bejeepers out of himself, then asked me to go out with him....and then I scared the bejeepers out of him (always good fun) on one of our high wind days. In the end, he wanted not to have a sailboat and I wanted not to have a motorcycle. We traded. He found building was way more fun than sailing. My bike was worth about $2500 Canadian (at the time, about $1560 US) and his boat was very new (two uses) with a brand new trailer (no motor, I already had one). I live in a pretty remote area in the mountains of southern interior BC...not a lot of sailboats here. When you see them, they are rarely for sale. Yes, I could easily have build any kind of boat for myself, but it is not likely to happen. Although I make my living as a guitarmaker now, I have been a joiner, boatbuilder and shipwright in the past. Making things full time, for most of my life, from wood does not lend itself to spending even more time in the shop on my days and evenings off...making even more things out of wood. I have a whole list of other things I prefer to do on my time off. I have sailed most of my life (on a range of larger boats), though I had not (until the swap) ever owned...or even hoped to own, my own sailboat. As a side hobby to working on boats, I very casually studied naval architecture. Sorry for covering what seem to be unrelated topics. I am just making it clear from where I come from to form my opinions. I must say that I enjoy this forum and all the folks on it. I have learned a lot of very interesting and valuable lessons here. The range of experience and expertise is wonderful and it is great to be able to tap into some of this knowledge. The designer (Mike) of this boat reads all the posts, it seems to me, and is very helpful to anyone that needs advice. My list of opinions is just that, my opinion. The opinion of someone who has no emotional tie in to the Stevensons Projects boats. I did not build this boat by choice as most here have done. I will also add that I won't be debating any of my comments, as it has all been done before. These are only my opinions. You are the first person, to my recollection, that has asked this question out loud. This thread could be of some value to a person that is debating building a WE or some other design. Weighing the pros and cons. I don't want to hurt anybodies feelings here. Folks tend to, for some reason, take this stuff very personally. I design and build some pretty odd instruments...my work is dissected and criticized all the time. Part of the territory it seems to me. The design itself: I would categorize this design as a boat meant to be easily constructed my a raw amateur with little previous woodworking or construction skill. The assembly methods are unorthodox at best, some of which are not even remotely associated with traditional boatbuilding. This, I think, is in some ways a very good thing. I am not certain on this, but it seems to me that this design was created as a result of a design contest in a 70's or 80's vintage Popular Science magazine issue. I think this design won the contest....though I am fuzzy on this. I feel that the most attention to this design was for ease of construction and to look 'salty'. Both of which it has achieved. It is also very common for these first time builders to also be first time sailors. -The thing I like the most about this boat is the way it is so easily and quickly rigged and torn down. Brilliant. I have not seen a traditional boat (that has a stayed mast) do this so well. If I was to build another boat around this size range, I would duplicate the basic idea. The bad thing is the called for dimensions of both the mast and boom. They are almost double what they actually need to be. I have reduced a lot of weight aloft and just plain old weight period by building all new spars in a more 'petite' dimension. It makes a big difference. I believe the reason (or one of them) that these spars are so massive is because it looks good or is somehow in keeping with the old time salty workboat/ Friendship Sloop idea. -The stock wheel steering is, at best, a joke. There have been countless folks that has had it break the very first time out in the boat. Including the fellow that built my boat. I am sure his maiden voyage would not have been nearly so frightening if he was able to actually steer the boat. I feel this wheel exists in the plans to this day because it sells the whole salty notion. I have always thought that traditional looking wheel was the very thing that has sold many folks on buying plans with hopes of building the boat. I do believe it does well to create a bit more space in the cockpit. I know many of the listers have modified their wheel steering to work well without breaking. The info exists somewhere here on the forum. Having a wheel on such a small boat is pretty silly....but then it is just my opinion. I can't be easy to steer one of these little boats on a broad reach with the wheel. I know in my boat, when you are doing hull speed and then some, surfing down waves on a broad reach, you need some very quick and precise corrective trim adjustments now and again. I have many times thought it would be a real handful if a person had to use wheel steering...but then I am sure many folks have gotten use to this and use it to great effect. It is just not for me. -This boat can be quite a handful in regards to weather helm. I know my boat was plain old horrible. Far too much pressure on the helm if I chose to carry more canvas than I should. Many folks have no problem with it. I am always shocked at the range of opinion on this topic alone. I know that the weather helm pressure created by this boat was partially responsible for what took out the PO owners steering system. I have looked at this boat as a whole. Regarding the CLR and the CE, and it is basically wrong. Sorry to say. The 'keel' structure carries way more area forward than aft, which moves the CLR too far forward, which is what causes the weather helm to be excessive, on my boat anyway. It also effects the balance of the boat to some degree. I feel that the designers may have done this to keep the boat safer with more pronounced weather helm, or it may have not even been an issue for them. This oddly shaped keel creates other problems as well. I have radically altered the shape of the keel and will be doing more of this in a couple of weeks. My boat is almost at the point of (for me) being perfectly balanced. A bit more work and I will have it right where I want it. -This high area forefoot (as mentioned above) is also the cause of another 'issue'. The inability to be able to carry the head of the boat all the way through a tack. I personally used to keep a paddle on deck to finish a tack in light wind....even medium wind. Many others here have suggested all manner of procedure. Thing is though, it should just come over, every time. The chubby forefoot is light a special fin meant to prevent to head from coming around. Once I removed mine it tacked perfect every time, not problems...ever. Yet another 'issue' with the forefoot, thought not nearly so important (only to me) is the inherent tippyness when beached. It was a huge nuisance as the boat was on much too extreme of an angle when up on the sand. This shape of forefoot also makes the boat more difficult than necessary to retrieve from the water onto your trailer. Again, by removing a large bulk of this shape my boat is much more user friendly for beaching and much easier to get on the trailer. These are just minor issues I suppose. -Again, many people with argue this point with me, but I was very disappointed in the windward ability of the boat. I could actually see the amount of sideslip I was getting in my boat...when I was able to use solid reference points on land. I got to the point where I never bothered to sail to wind as I never seemed to get anywhere. I spent my sailing days off the wind and motoring home...unless I had a 180 degree wind shift (which is very common on my lake). I added an adjustable (fore and aft) dagger board and case to my boat. It made a huge and wonderful difference. I highly recommend it. If you think about it, where have you seen a sail boat...of any size without a real keel? As far as I know, the weekender and vacationer are the only ones. Even lee boards. Nothing. Folks say it is the keel and hard chine that does it, cool. If it seems to work for them. Cool. It didn't for me. My feeling, again, was although the original design did have a centerboard...it was omitted saying they found the boats to work fine without it. Cool. I get that. But what I think is that it was removed partly at least because a centerboard and case were a huge challenge for home hobbyists to build and to make watertight on the highly rockered bottom. It also removed a major amount of room from the interior of the boat. Personally, I would rather have to boat function better as a sailboat and give up the room. -Ballast: It is not necessary and comes down to a personal decision. Personally, it so radically changed the feel and nature of the boat that I can't imagine sailing without it. I have 260 lbs of lead in what I feel is the best place for it. I have removed the transom backbone thingee that the rudder was hung on and have designed and built a more traditional rudder. I have also beefed up the transom. I will be adding some more deadwood to the boat....and eventually I will remove the 'clipper' extension of the 'stem'. Just a simple ascetic choice more or less. Everyone has their deal huh? Just minor points. In working on the transom these past few weeks, I have seen some things that are really not great. I am not sure what it recommends in the plans, but I can tell you the builder said he went 100% to the plans.....that where there is a compound curved support listing, that it be 'curf bent'. (specifically the deck to transom joint) I would recommend going to the trouble of building something properly. The end result with such a listing is it ends up all cracked and broken and no longer a structural piece. The screws sent in from the outside break it all to pieces. Perhaps it is just the result of this particular persons construction abilities, but I would not rely on a simple glass taped outer joint to hold such things together, the mechanical joint underneath is vital in my humble opinion. In the end, I must say I have really enjoyed working on my boat. Every change I make just makes me more confident in the boat and helps me to enjoy it more. I have gotten the boat to the point now, that on some points of sail I can go forward and sit on the coach roof and let the boat sail itself. I sail this boat in high wind conditions that, I am sure, a stock WE owner would not. I know I would not have sailed the original boat in many of the conditions that are now just huge fun. I have grown to love the overall look of the boat, am now a believer in the gaff rig and would use it again on another boat and feel that the handiness of launch and retrieval are outstanding. Some of my best moments in the last 4 years have been spent on this boat. There are 100's of people that have enjoyed building these boats....and sailing them.....all totally as originally designed. So there you go. I have just made it a bit of a hobby to try and improve on a very excellent and worthy design....just to suit myself.... just for laughs. Hopefully, some of this info will benefit someone in some way......and hopefully I have not pissed off too many people. Have a great Sunday All. Cheers. -

Kids would have a riot with one of those wee things.

All great info lads. Thanks.

Dang, that's awful. I loved Graeme's posts and looked forward to any news. It will be wonderful if his daughter takes up his project and eventually launches Snupi. I hope she hangs out here as well.

That's pretty damn funny. On my lake, it happens to be the new strain of wake boarders that are a problem. The traditional skiers like flat or glassy water and stay out of each others way. These wake board folks love the big chop....and the boats are driven and designed to create big waves and holes. They can be out there in anything but 10K+ winds at any time of the day. (Whereas skiers like the 'ends' of the day) It can be like sailing in a mix master some days. But even at that I don't much care as it gives me something to watch.

...oh, OK. So if you wrap a bit of the sheets around...then it might be ok to take them down to a lower angle. Gatcha. Thanks Beaker.

Right....so you used (are using) the Harken unit then Jake? This is the exact info I was looking for firedude. I was actually planning the fixed wire stay and the 2nd furler 'stay'.....but was looking for a possible simplification. What did you end up doing at the upper swivel to secure that end's halyard from winding up...or does the swivel run free with simple line tension? I am not sure yet if I am going to use a furler (I would prefer to...) but may just go with an old timey lower single pully just to be able to bring the tack to the foredeck to stow or set the sail......for now. Did you go with an inner stay as well? Or provisions to set one? Now that I think of it....I can't remember seeing pix of you sailing your boat....or on the water....did I just miss this or what? I know you have launched and sailed.....I have just not seen evidence of it.......~:0) I have another question...one that has also been bugging me. I have never sailed a boat with a furler, so I may be wondering about something that is a no brainer (sure wouldn't be the first time). When the headsail (in my case a larger lapper) is nicely rolled up....how do you secure the two sheets? It seems to me they end up at about 1/2 distance up the stay. If I have set a stay sail on the inner wire, how the heck do you keep a nice 'square' pull on the sheets to keep the lapper wound tight and secure.....and not have the sheets foul the action of the staysail? If the sheets run 'down' (in order to be out of the way of the staysail) and are belayed to a cleat somewhere.......I envision the rolled up sail getting all loose and stupid for not having a square pull. Do you get what I mean? The weather got very nice about two weeks ago so I have been out tearing apart Annie M again. Working on the transom/rudder/'keel' area this spring. Hoping to get the new cutter rig done early on and eventually doing a topsail rig as well. Replacing some running rigging as I go along. Anybody see any particularly good deals on 50' of 3/8 quality line? Nothing fancy. I am looking to upgrade from my crap 5/16 Home Despot stuff. I had a Main Sheet tangle that was crazy last year. Hoping to eliminate that to some degree with finer line. Daphne and I drove down to the lake yesterday. Man, It would have been a perfect day for a sail. Solid sunshine and a steady 10 knots over the whole lake...all ten miles of it. It is just a tad cold yet. Hopefully we will get wet again in April some time.

Does anyone know (Mike?) about what kind of pull is exerted on the forestay of a stock weekender? Thinking about using a furler that is rated up to 900lbs.

That's right in your neighborhood Joel. Great looking sailing ground. I won't be going as I have blown my summer plans on a solo circumnavigation (sounds very important and adventurous doesn't it?) of Okanogan Lake. 140 miles. Sun, Heat, Beer, Bikinis and resonably reliable winds.

Right.... I just had it confirmed, there is a 2005 gathering. Current info here. http://members.shaw.ca/jamie.orr/

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/s/gatherings/sucia/index.cfm I thought this may be of interest to anyone in the PNW that might like to plan being part of a well attended messabout in a beautiful area. I am not sure if that link will work for folks not subscribed to Duckworks....hmmmmm...maybe this would work better. http://www3.telus.net/wavefront/sucia/index.html Although this is for the 2004 version, I do believe they are doing it again this year. Cheers, TT

Thanks Brent. The compliments are appreciated. I am not so sure about this. There was a time when I couldn't build anything, not simple stair or a box or anything, without it being over the top. I have always feared that if I built another boat for myself it would be so over the top with stupid fancy bits it would take me three times longer to complete than necessary. I am at a point now where I no longer have anything to prove to anyone, most importantly, to myself. I guess some folks would call that growing up. Who knows. I would like to think that if and when I get to a position of actually doing something about this project that I would build with the intent of completion as soon as possible, and not finess for the sake of ego. Paint grade all the way I say......well, maybe with a nice hatch or two and the odd inlay here and there.....and I have some nice intense Flame Maple and Pomele Sepele that would make a fine bit of joiner work below......hmmmmmmm. I think I will buy a boat.

Man, that is a LOT of snow. Reminds me of my years in PEI and Ontario. One of the big reasons I went west. We have had a freakish bout of warm weather. All the nice snow we had is almost gone...melted. The extra early (and I am sure) false Spring has sent rivers through out the interior of BC to flowing with giant chunks of ice and such. Bridges crushed, towns flooded...home evacuated etc. Not in my immediate region, but close enough. The early respite from the cold has got me back to working on the few things I need to do before it is actually warm enough to work outside again. Sorry to hear of your health issues. Hang in there. I heard beer is good for that... RIP Molsons Brewery (not that I ever drank the stuff :roll: )... now owned by Coors now the 5th largest beer maker on the planet.