Maria CS20 104

...more pics...

We try again to add pictures to the site. SOn and wife spent time trying to teach me, tough job for them.... Let's see if they come through

Just looking at the pic provided it really looks similar to a brittle fracture in highly stressed metal, especially with straight edge and short fiber tearing in the board? Ideas? Jim

Can't seem to post a thing in our pics, Son says files are 2 meg or more maybe need a web site with attachment, heck I do not know we will figure out. Greg, play with the layout drawing pics and coloring in with colored pencils. I think you will find minimum contrast with mahogeny and oak and walnut, darker woods will look better, I think it will. Son wants the distinct contrast with light and dark, I prefer softer contrast and walnut, fir and Sasafras would lood cool and distinct, or walnut, sasafras and red oak on a three ply orientation would be beautiful as well. I will post pics as soon as we can figure out. Ideas? Really would like to share the work on a new file. Jim

We have a "finished" rudder, ready for epoxy, really nice shape, a little more rounded that what I have seen but length is a little longer as well. The centerboard blank is ready for final planning but the guy who will do it is out of town. I will get pics of what we have of all the construction pics. I owe everyone these already, they will include the rudder and centerboard blank that still needs final planning and sanding. I will provide pictures of final shaping and sanding as we progress. Remember this is really hard material, all kiln dried when in the raw and I expect my muscles and back will get a workout. Tiller is still in the drawing phase and we are working on the how to cut small strips and not loose fingers and end up bloody. As a Safety Manager it does not bode well to show up at work each Monday with more patches and bandages than intact skin and bone, I work a little slower but I keep my parts (mostly, blow-outs occur). I'll get these to you and all as they come to fruition. Jim

Having played some with force vectors and materials being "distructively" tested for sheer strength, plastic deformation etc., on both on metals and wood, including V-notch testing on metals at different temperatures, I think (not really sure), if board is covered in epoxy ONLY, it's elasticity is reduced to side forces if a fault in introduces. The minimal wear that can occur at the base of the centerbard well or dagger well as it moves sideways in the well and a little forward and backwards with different speeds can score the surface epoxy, much like glass cutting scoring along a very specific and fairly fine line. I would think this scoring can be increased in muddy or sandy water. With continued use wear can score it more deeply than suspected and with little applied side stress, the momentum and weight of the boat along with the board pressed against the square bottom side of the well like a fulcrum, any sustained side pressure on the tip of the dagger or centerboard blade would make it easier to snap. I have played with glass and it does not take a fully scored plate to cause it to snap on a straight line under the right circumstances, think straight pivot point at the bottom of the well. I believe, could be absolutely wrong, but I think it is basic physics along with materials flexibility/ rigidity of the composition (natural or induced). I also think a really good case for fiber glassing to increase wear resistance and cross sectional strength on a wide flat piece that is clearly subject to potential wear at a specific point. Just an engineers thoughts ??? ??? Jim A

Hey Greg, I found the planning of the raw boards easy enough to take down for hickory, Sasafras will plane cleaner and look as good, not as ivory as hickory though. Walnut planes better than most poods I've dealth with especially if it is 1st or 2nd cut having no knots or fragmented grain patterns. I did alternate the grain and I put buscuits on a 3-2 pattern to stagger and add strength to the joins. I got the wood for free and the hickory was a bit knotty and really had to be cut to stringers to elimnate several knots and be usefull. All in all turned out beautiful, like a high dollar cutting board, walnut on outside edges and then hickory with walnut alternating across the board. Final shape will change that and the toe and tiller will be additional hickory on bottem for hardnes and wear resistance, tiller walnut and hickory for a sandwhich effect. Final planning of template board must be done with very sharp knives in the planner at a slower speed or it can (and has for me) result in some surface splinters against the grain where it is alternately stacked. Final sanding should reduce any obvious splinter areas and fill, cover in glass with several final light coats of epoxy will fill out the board, sanding between coats. On the rudder I used the Okume doubled 3/8ths play and sanded and shaped beautifully. Had I not shot it full of brads to keep from slipping apart when clamping and them putting 200 lbs of weights or more to increas join pressure it would not look like I shot it with a 20 guage, but this will be epoxied in and painted to boat scheme. Son is a weight lifter and I have used his equipment to suppliment my multiple clamps and thus equalizing pressure across different large joined pieces (including bottom and sides to hold flat during cures). I am hoping to be able to set up to remove centerboard during trailering to prevent chattering and bouncing with only the hauldown tied in place to secure. Will make a storage place on board, so it will get seen some and we wanted to make it reall pretty (col say's son Pat) with thh other planned wood highlights across the deck and in cockpit done in bright fashion. Jim

I have my centerboard template piece cut and ready for the plane. Once cut down and sanded to shape do ya'll recommend fiberglassing the blade (4 oz?). If so I think I should plane to 1" and build up to 1 1/8th with the glass and epoxy. Comments. The blade is laminated Walnut and Hickory strips and resulting board is 1 5/8ths thick before planning, shaping and sanding. I was thinking (foolish of course) I'd add the handle after planning and then sand the whole lot as I shape it out to final dimension. Ideas? :-\ Jim

You are absolutley right, a bit scary too. When pulled up all the little errors I WILL have will show up and we'll have to do what ya'll have done, DEAL WITH IT and move forward. Wife and son are as excited as I am and they tend to push me to quit thinking so much and just DO SOMETHING. Things to do, dial back in later. Jim

Man oh man, can't believe we are really here, fact not sure we are, experimenting with pull in and alignment. My engineering back ground wants to check evey measurement and detail. Butterflied the front, drilled the holes using carpenters square, we drilled out template holes for attachment at every 5 1/2" s'. looks good but as always a few details I need to confirm with measurements. ENGINEERS, what can you expect? Hull alignment and hole alignment look really good. We'll position the forms tommorrow and hopefully set the panels in place on the forms and tighten the wires and tie straps to conform to the shape. We'll Keep Ya posted and finnaly get pics on line. Centerboard t be planed down this week to give me something to do while fillets set and cure. Keeping busy. Jim A

I think I have the general idea and I think, note I said I think, if laid out with stringers inside it is just a matter of minor handling to set into the forms instead of ring one side out from under the other and then bringing around to lay over by turning 180 degrees. Any idea how far apart the stern of the side winds should be apart from the bottom of the hull when getting ready to set the side wings? based upon all the pics I have seen it varys a bit depending on who is doing the layout, looks to me about five or six feet. Any words of wisdom amoungst you pros? Getting worried, I've build and or cut out all I can without proceeding with butterflying and sewing together and it has become time to make the ship or get off the pot. Have faith, I will do this one way or another, just want your experiance and guidance before I take this GIANT step. Thanks for all the great input, tappering was fun with the hand plane, especially after sharping the blades to a fine honed edge. Jim Atkinson

Welcome. I to am new at this experiment and we are having a ball having cut out all hull items including beams and rudder parts along with cutting wood for centerboard. On the rudder we used instructions directly and hand sanded close to specifications. Really looks cool with the shape finished out and sanded to smooth, using the ply on the rudder I found as I sanded through the plys I could get a good simetrical board by measuring the distance on the exposed wood in each play, on each side. On the centerboard, a friend gave us hickory and black walnut which we cut in strips and alternated the strips by grain orientation. Looks cool even though the only it will be seen is when removed completely for transporting the boat on a trailer. Don't want it supported by a line and catch when driving, bouncing and rattling around I am concerned it could drop. We are going to buiscuit it between each strip. I think right now about three between each strip. Plan to place at about 8" in from top to bottom off set by about 4 inches and one down center of each strip off-set by 3 inches between each strip. I am sure it will be more difficult to build, set buiscuits and epoxy up and clamp together, but I THINK IT WILL BE COOL and WORTH it. Best of luck and have fun learning and building Jim Atkinson CS 20 104

Tried to respond yesterday, didn't accept message. Do I need to taper the stringers before I butterfly? Once done and attached do you lay temp out with the stringers on the outside of side panels, very bottom and very top, to have the flat sides against each other? Only way I see I can come close to a good tight fit. Or do the stringers not make a difference when they have been tapered down to 1/8" in the bow section. This is the real part of my confusion. THanks, Jim

Hey all, I back, made good progress cutting materials for centerboard (hickory and black walnut for main portion) made heavy of free materials. Plan to biscuit the strips in the next couple of days and have friend who will plane down from 1 5/8 when cured then handle attachment for final shaping. All hull pieces cut and ready to assemble, but I am confused on instructions. Plan says to put seat stringer on after sides made up. I have sides all marked to attach for both sides, but it looks to me you can't properly butterfly sides and bottom with them in place. Additionally, it is advisable to use galvanized 3/4 inch brads to hold side walls in place when epoxying together? They will be buried and covered in multiple layers of epoxy when done, am I on the wrong track? Where can I get SS 3/4 18 gauge brads for my pneumatic gun (bostich)? Are they available? Ringnails, are they hard to put in place? Recommended method, since nails go through outside of the hull, through ply into the seat stringer? I have an idea to butterfly firest and then set sidewalls. OK? ??? Jim A

Ended up with 40 board ft. of Walnut, 15 of hickory, and 30 board foot of Redwood, along with all the fir I was talking about. Any ideas of what to do with the Redwood. Thinking of splitting the planks and using for combing acents but concerned about it being too soft? Sure is pretty material and would love to incorporate with the maple, walnut, and fir. Any ideas fellow adventurers? Jim

I guess Snow is for the crazy, in the south the feelings seem to be much the same, wife cannot stand anything below 50 either. Just don't appreciate the finer things like solitude in the mountians I guess? Best time in 6 foot of snow, no one else around, silence and peaceful, get a little fire going, walk a little heat a little, cook up a deer steak and potatoes, brandy and sound sleep. Darned near like being rocked to sleep in the surf but without bugs, especially no-see-ums. They have eaten me and my lunch a time or two, even with Avon lotion Jim

Ray, SNOW is God's frosting on the world, some of us love it and some dispise it, usually with a vengence in the south. Turns ugly to peaceful and beautiful, bet yer wife could proce with a painting, I have many times. When it is 95 with 99% humidity, SONW LOOKS GREAT, for a moment. You've just never been wintewr camping in the Rockies in 4 to 8 foot of snow, chasing Elk and Deer and Grouse for a week without kids and work to do, limited experiance in this are does not make it gawd awful, may seem like it, take yer bride to a secluded cabin in the woods for a three day pass with a few good book, some beer and wine with NO KIDS. God send, stay indoors and burn wood instead of shaping it, just once every two or three years. Fine stuff Jim Atkinson truely a Washington State Mountian Boy come to the South (by the grace of God, tis true)

Thanks Jeff, good to know, should have a light helm by that definition. I got lucky at hard word place, really a wood specialty business. One of the old hands from the papermill where I am the Health and Safety Director. Elbert, the owner, has sinker pine, sinker cypress, sinker oak, (sinker by his definition is wood sunk in lakes, rivers and bogs, salvaged, cut and dried). He has aromatic cedar in all sizes, literally, 4x4, 8x8, 2by 3 by, multiple widths; red oak, white oak, cheery, bass wood, pecan. sasafras(?), etc. He just finished some hickory stair treads and had a bunch of 1 1/2 by 6, 8, 10 by 8 feet. He is planing out the three hickory pieces for me to 1 inch thick to build the center board. Got half a dozen 1x1 maple sticks, 6 to eight feet, thought these would be handy for something. Selected about 6-1/2x4 by 8 foot walnut boards, to thin for any purpose he has, had them for several years, got three or four 1x5x8 ft. Walnut boards, beautiful grain. Most walnut dark heart wood. Think I want to accents similar to what Jan did with maple and walnut. He is finding me a re-sawer for some of my fir to cut one 2x12x16 ft. down to 5"x1/4" thin planks for the combings, at least that is my plan. I think God wants this boat built, Elbert is giving me the wood we selected tonight. He will get into the old pocket book soon enough with some projects I am dreaming about for the time after this boat is built. He has offered to plane out the semifinished center board after it is glued and ready to be cut to size and shape. If some one is looking for kiln dried special woods, this guy has a bunch, I am going to look at a couple of large shops he has at the house. I'll get a list and post it here, try to get price list too. If anybody is interested, let me know and I'll get you phone number and all appropriate information. Elbert is a character, a good man, will fit right in with this group. Jim Atkinson

It is amazing, love the glass and brass, really cool., congratulate yer bride........... wish I had a copy too!

Just built my rudder, cool experiance, still can't seem to get pics on board, camera issues. Hate computers, even though son is a C nut and wife seems to be able to anything she wants. Rather paint a landscape or work on the boat, Glued up anded out the cheeks an doublers, can't get my fir, thinks I will get a trailer and go get it myself. PINTA! Going t a specialist lumber cutter for some raw hardword, rough planned stuff in oak, ash, walnut, and other fines. See what he has for the filler in the rudder and other pieces I have in mind. Rudder blade looks realy good, smooth and fair but leadin edge is at least 2" beyond the plan lines. You professional and othe experianced folks, should I have any problem with this? I wont hit the bottom of the boat. Length is about an inch and a half longer too, but all is very fair and smooth and simetrical and seems to be balanced side to side. Heck, hope it works. What the heck is a light helm? Just building and MOVING FORWARD. Thanks for Comments Jim Atkinson

Hey all, Yes I am a watercolor artist, pencil and pen and mostly landscapes, a few seascapes. Love it, takes a lot of planning, somewhat similar to building a boat or furniture. Your wife clearly has talent, what a gift, love the piece . Good luck on getting more fir. Jim

First, Carla, thanks for getting me the DVD so quickly, know yer busy, but you have been tryen to serve us all. We all need to keep You, yer Hubby and kids and grandkids in our prayers, you are in ours every day. Hey all got another copy of the B&B DVD, with lots more pics, really appreciate the sharing from you folks building these wonders of the sea. Hope to figure out how to put our pictures on line for ya'll tommorrow. My Sweetie of 26 years has taken lots of pics during the cutout of hull pieces and rudder components. Just cut out the center truck 1/4" side pieces. Unfortunately I am still waiting for my douglas fir, the lumber yard found more than we expected in 1 by and found another 2x12 x16 footer, went and checked it out, seems to be clear as a bell and covered by 1/16" dirt and dust. Whipped off a small section, like the way it has darkened, no apparrent warp. We'll quarter saw as instructed by another really wonderfull commentor. The wood use and growth instruction help me remember stuff I've so rarely delt with and reminded me how to handle really good lumber. By the way Charlie, thanks for the encouragement on getting whatever the lumber guy might have and store it properly. What do you reccommend to stick it up? Should I weight it down alternating grain, remember this is pretty much board cut stuff. I have currently bought up all I can get and yes I will probably build another, and I will blame you. The next one will also probably be another B&B based on my observations, the inspiration, guidance and input of all the builders on this site. Love the lapwing, like to see her in 24 to 28 foot, surely not a Core Sound, but classicly beautiful in her lines, this might be a better boat for Sea Explorers Ray, teach them how to row as a team, tie knots, scrub and maintain, launch and land as a team, raise sails, and get a little wet beaching and pressing her back off the beach. To All, THANKS for the opportunity to keep me in the fold and get such incredible info on this adventure. Jan meant all I said, you have a gift, hope I can be at least as 1/4 quater as creative as you have been, I am gonna try, lt is very much like painting a Water color landscape, never comes out or as you expect or really plan, but as my wife as others remind me often, it's good, get over it and get on with another. She often is likely to ask: "WHAT's NEXT", let's move forward! ALWAYS FORWARD! Best to all and thanks to ALL again, pics soon to come, Jim Atkinson The dude in North Central Louisiana Blessings to All in Lifes GREAT ADVENTURE!

Jan, I was born from Spokane,WA, moved to Tacoma when I started HS. Went on my first sub there and knew I waould be a submariner. 5 Years on subs and 9 years in the Navy. Fell in love with sail boats in Tacoma, 3 years in Sea Scouts. Your work in spite of what you think is amazing and the creative approach you've taken to create the benches and deck are awasome. DO NO DISCOUNT your wotk, you should sell in Seattle for $16,000 or better, believe me you have created a masterpiece in this boat. I know your lake are are in Chalean (sp), one of my best friends was raised there, Floyd Webb and family, havent seen him or talk for years, but is the best of persons and his wife Jan was always awesome. Keep up the good work and keep the faith, you have a gift. I recently found some 25 year old fir and I will be modeling your boat in many ways. Hope to fine some brass fittings that will be used to model some of you fittings. Charlies is right, I have built a few pieces of furniture and I always see the flaws, carved walking sticks with horse heads and other details, told worth $400 to $500 each, do not discount your work. Yes I gave the walking sticks away for nothing, proud of the work but I saw what I thought were flaws. Your boat may have some but few people can creat such a full and complete thing of beauty, believe me. I have the same struggle with my water paintings, I don't think they measure up and I have a lot of folks who see more in them than I do, trust me, you have a gift. The greatest gift of creating a thing is the starting and the working thought it to fruition, the finish is always the disapointmnt, because we we ALWAYS see our flaws and inperfections, get over it, you have created a beautiful work of art. I pray and hope you use your giftsit for your family AND you can satisfaction in find fulmet in this in your life. You will bless yourself, your wife and your children with your continued effort. What an amazing gift a father can give to his wife and children. What and amazing gift a husband and wife can share. My bride of 26 years have had such gifts in our making of funiture, my painting, and now our building of the CS 104 Marriahh (name of the wind, changed the spelling a bit). Blessings and the love of Christ to you and yours, thank you for sharing the gift and your work. I will many questions in the near future, and you work has inspired me to move forward with our dream. ( Maybe mine but wife Karen has been infected I think). Again, thank YOU for your gift and inspiration to us ALL. Keep up the great work we all loo forward to your next project. Enjoy your family and a most amazing lake and community. God's Gift to YOU and Yours Jim Atkinson CS 20 104

Jan Outstanding workmanship and detail, along the line I would like to go with our CS 20. I am curious, no jealous of your imagination, and I absolutely need to know how you made the benches look planked, the thickness of the floor boards and forward bench boards. It all looks like you used fir, how far apart are the floor board supports? How are the boards attached? Water tightness of the various hatches? Thanks for the information Jim

Tiller looks great, haven't reached that far yet, hope to sew up this 4th of July holiday or near after on the 104. Questions, where did your get the SS keel strip? and How big is your motor? Unique looking attachment rig, self designed? Copy of plan? Jim Atkinosn