Maria CS20 104

Hey Ray, I missed the opportunity to see you when I was living in Madwaska to get the best of the best tips from a true master builder. I understand the issues associated with your location and all. First I am going with the epoxy, I seem to recall a previous post on your part and others that it is the best long term approach and your experiance has shown that year after year it is NOT an issue. I guess I am going with the birdsmouth because I have already drilled all the appropriate holes with reenforcement collars, footings and completed and installed the fiberglass tube forward. Additionally, I have no idea what internal or even external gussets are or would be and I kind of like the roundy mast traditional look as seen in the plans. I have only seen one box mast made and participated in it's sanding and varnishing better than 40 years ago. I did seriously think about box masts at the beginning of the project whe I had less experiance manipulating wood and equipment, but I like the long roundy masts. I do believe that there is substantially more waste with birds mouth masts but the challenge intrigues me now that I've built so many of the parts and pieces on this beast. I think after I made the oars from a 3 1/4" x 1 1/2" x 16' chunk of my 2"x12" 16' chunk of wood, adding some 3/4" spacers to widen the blade to about 5 3/4" finished, my confidence is higher and I like the idea and feeling of completing a more difficult project and the feel of the wood in my hands as I work it and watch it change into something few others have made. I want the experiance as well since I plan to make birdsmouth legs of walnut for my sons' dinning table set. I did SCORE on the douglas fir and I expect I'll get a better price on the short stuff he has left, about 300 to 400 board foot left as I recall by calibrated eyeball on the last of the stack, most around 8 to 10 feet in length, some 6" wide much 8" or so, all clean by sight, no knots but robably some pitch pockets. He's had this stuff for 15 or more years under cover and properly stacked and weighted to avoid cupping or twisting, I would say it's cabinet grade or better for the most part. I am thinking of remaking hatchcovers with this stuff just for fun and looks. I would like the info on box masts and whatever internal gussets are for future reference, heck if I screw these up I can always modify my approach. I am making one at a time. Best to all and thanks for the input Ray and Howard, Blessings (we just became grandparents to a 6lb 9 oz little girl, our 3rd grandbaby, keep them all in your prayers and thanks) Jim

After draggin my feet and squirelling my way around lumber yards I found 7 1"x12" x 14' fir lumberm all very clear, saw no pitch pockets. Couple of the board have some damage to one edge probably from movement during storage over the years but I should have enough to do both masts at 22' and still have 40% left over for use on a 12 foot spindrift (future project boat for grandsons). The cost was about $2.30 a board foot, last of stock deal and a friend owns the yard where we found the wood. He had looked about 8 months ago but recently found a stash while moving stock around and I happened to contact him today and he had the material on his some available list. He delivers tomorrow and I will go down later this week to hand pick the remaining lot. We have been very lucky to find some amazing lumber at private yards by digging around in all the back dusty corners. Lots of cutting and scarffing ahead, jigs all made and ready. I'll cut some practice strips and set up a two foot sample with my bride to get the hand of it. Do need to set up some finger boards and extensions on the router table to simplify the work. I keep reading that I should not use epoxy but some phynallic (?sp) glue like gorilla whats the general consensus on gluing staves? I figure staves to be 1.2 inches wide with a thickness of .6 inches (maybe .7 inches). Been reading a lot and inspecting sites and work in lots of places and it looks pretty straight forward, hpoe so. One of these days soon, we'll post a host of pictures. Jim

I JUST FINISHED MAKING MY 10 FOOT OARS FOR OUR CS20. I started by cutting down a 2 x 12 x 16 foot piece of old growth douglas fir. I cut off 2 lenghts at 1 1/2 wide ( it is as you know is 1 1/2 thick). I cut 10' 2" off of the lengths which left me with two pieces about 6' long. I cut two 33 " pieces from one of the left over cutoffs, selecting the best grain with no defects. Fortunately these are very tight grained and the grain is pretty clear and straight. With the three pieces, one long at 10' 2", two about 33 " this would have made the blade blanks 4 1/2" wide which I felt was too narrow. I took addional pieces of 3/4 thick fir from some (again old growth tight grained) 1 x 6 x 6' and cut them down to a width of 1 1/2 strips and made 4 - 33 inch blanks to widen the blades by an additional 1 1/2 inches. I dry fit these all together with obiously the 10' piece for the center, a 3/4" fir strip next for each side of the center strip and then the two 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" - 33" pieces on the outside. I used thicked epoxy to put them together and clamped the heck out of them as best I could and as flat as I could (they looked aweful as heck but So what). The weather was warm enough for the epoxy to set and after a few days I brought them into the house to cure for a few more days. They looked like a pair of 1880 style flat boat rudder oars. I left them alone and pondered and pondered and pondered. I looked at all of the web sites listed above and I also went to boating stores and places like Academy Sports, wherever I could find long oars. I took a bunch of measurements and came up with a hybradized idea. (I HOPE THEY WORK). I finally cut off the excess length so the blanks at the blade end were square using my table saw, yes I had helpers holding the long pieces (looms?), final length was 10' 1/8 " . I took my blanks and marked the centerline on the top and bottom surfaces, and then on the sides of the blank of the oar blades. I then measured from where the tops of the blades were glued to the oar shafts down 9" and drew a line across the blade blanks (side to side) and continued marking the line all the way around the blade blank. I drew another line from where the side pieces where glued to the shaft to the outer edges of the blank where it was marked at 9", with a dark heavy line. I cut off the top of the blade blank just outside the indicated lined angle with a hand jig saw to make the blanks look oar like, leaving about 1/8" outside the lines. So I had two chunks of glued together pieces of wood that looked very much like 10' long CLUNKY oars, the whole Loom and blade blank being 1 x 1/2 thick. I then turned the blade blanks on edge and remarked the edge centerlines on both oar blanks. Once the centerlines were marked all the way to the end tip of what would become the oar, I marked off a point at 3/8" on each side of the centerline at the tip of the oar blade on the side of the blank. I went to what would be the angle cutoff point toward the top of the blade blank at 9" from the loom (oar shaft) where the line was made around the blade blank and drew heavy line marks on all four sides (remember we gots two oar blades). From the edge where they are 1 x 1/2" thick at the 9" mark, down to my marks I made at the bottom of the blade, 3/8" inch off center at the tip of the blade. I hope all this makes sense. Looking at the blade sides, the marked lines look like you are making a giant tapered potato masher. Starting at 9" inches down the blade blank, (where we have the line drawn around the entire blade and at the end of the tapered cut, (at the outer edge of the blade this is and will remain for a time at 1 1/2' thick, the upper side mark starts here at the outer edge). The drawn lines run down the edge (side of the blade) to the points previously marked at 3/8" off center at the tip of the blade blank. Looks like you are making a giant wedge. I drew cross lines across the top and bottom surfaces of the blades (what will be the big flat parts) every three inches as reminders to myself to pay attention not to get into the side marked wedge lines when I began to plane these chunks of wood down to shape. Now that I had the line marked on the side of the blanks, I marked, quite heavily with a ball point pen, the centerline of each blade surface. These lines run from 1' above the top of the blade blank (on the loom {long stick part of the blade}) at the centerline of the blades to be (the parts that would become the flat working surface) all the way down to the tip (bottom) of the blade. I did not want these marks to disappear during the inital ind intermeadiate efforts of planning and shaping. Once successfully marked with all appropriate lines, (angle and dangles), I clamped each oar blank down and planned the the blades down staying outside the lines (as best I could) and ended up with two, pretty good looking oars that needed a bunch of sanding. I started with a hand powered planer and then quickly moved to a hand planer. The blade surfaces should come to a peak down the blade surface centerlines to a nice taper from the 9" mark all the way down to the end tips of the blades. It is IMPORTANT to keep outside all marked lines because the blade obviously tapers from the 9" mark near the top of the blade, to the tip of the blade on the flat surface, but it also tapers from the 9" mark on the side of the blade centerline to the tapered down 3/8" points marked on each of the side edges. (TAKE YOUR TIME). It sounds more difficult than it really is, take your time, pay attention to your lines marks and meaured (3 times at least before you plane or cut). The end result will Kinda looked like a broad sword with a flat tip, hope ya'll can picture that. At this point I had ( and you should have) two "oars" 10 foot long that looked like oars in the rough, properly tapered on the blade sides and surface At 9" down from the from the looms, 1 x 1/2 inches tapered down to a 3/4 inch thick at the blade tip (3/8" off each side of centerline). Now I say get artistic and peacefully sand and shape to the finished shape. I took about two days measuring and checking blade shape tip to top and they are 3/16th's on teh side edges, the blades are 5/78 wide from the 9" marks to the tips and taper from 1 1/2 inch at 6" or so from the looms (? Handle thingy long part) down to 5/8" centerline at the tip and 3/16th on the sides (edges) at the 9" point to the tip. THEY LOOK COOL and I made them and I hope they work. Heck if not, I'll try something else and have confidence that I can do it better.

I am almost convinced to build the mast but am struggling with material selection. Fir, Cyprus, cedar, considering spruce ($), yellow pine. other pine species? I think I have the math down and it does not look impossible and I figure 60 to 70 board feet or so to complete both main and mizzen mast with 20% or more waste. Staves about 1.2" wide, 5/8 thick. Plan on cutting the birds mouth on a router table. INPUT BEGGED for from those that have gone before........... Approximate weight of fir mast at 21 feet?????????? guesses welcome Jim

Thanks for the input. I will be installing a hiking out stick as well. I suspect you are right about twist generated when hauling flat out. I'll see what I can do to make that happen, maybe two bolts and two screws for each, the holes are pretty close to the place where the pintles slip into the bracket and mike make it difficult to install. I'll Re-look. Thanks Again Jim

I cut solid douglas fir strips and scarfed them to 24 feet. They are 3/4 x 1 1/2. I soaked them for a week in the pool and then hung them on a fence with 25 lbs on each end setting the bend close to where I expected it to be more radiused at the bow. I made sure that the scarfed end was toward the stern to reduce over stressing when installing Less curved radius. We wetted them down daily and finnaly let them dry in the garage. After I test fitted and cut to length, I stained and sanded and stained again, covered with the first coat of varnish, let dry and brought them into the sun room. Coated with four more coats of varnish and let dry and we installed. Bend in just about perfectly, needed extra hands at the bow but they are in place and look great. Jim

I am getting ready to installl the rudder box (WOOOOOOPPIE). The pintle arms were difficult to bend and get the rod the same clearance top and bottom but I finnally got them complete and test fitted. Really close on the spacing and rods are parrallel to the box. I have squared up the boat and dropped a plumbob to check my centering on the transom, looks really close and I am happy with the results. NOW for the question, when installing the gudgeons do I put four bolts in each gudgeons or two in each one? There are four bolt holes in each gudgeon so I am assuming that four bolts are required for each unit. Is that correct? Four bolts for each? I have my tiller handle completed but I will install it after the rudder box is mounted. The rudder is complete, covered in fiberglass, an extra coat of epoxy and four coats of marine varnish. I intend to make the the tiller handle capable of pivoting so it is eaiser to use when standing. I'm putting in a pivot point bolt, fixed and another bolt toward the forward part of the rudder box head to lock it down durig normal cruising. Look forward to comment, critique and experiance. Thanks, Jim

Obviously I have a boat, CS20 104 and I am down to the short strokes and need something to do as small parts and pieces are busy drying coats and coats of varnish inside the sun room in the house. I have a 2 x12 x 16' fir board and lots of 1 1/2" x 1 1/2 " scrap strips, plent of epoxy and varnish and too much spare time. I think I need 10 foot oars for the boat, just based on research and the 6' 3" beam. With this length I think the fir is the best choice for strength but I defer to the masters and look forward to getting input. the looms will be 1 x 1/2" x 1 x 1/2 " octagon (or 1 x 1/2" x 2" semi-octagon shaped. I am thinking cut the looms to length (10') and cut sides to the paddle ends (3') and glue up the working end strips to the oars so they are 5 1/2" to 6" wide..................... just an idea, need better info Thanks Jim

I am looking at mast materials and availability here in north louisiana. Looking at spruce, very hard to find and I am interested in wether or not cyprus would be an appropriate material. I can get fir but in short lengths that would require it to be overlapped and I am not sure how much of an over llap I should use. I am planning solid masts, not worried about speed but I think solid mast would be fine and substantial enough for the beast. I will round the bottom three feet and plan to stick with a rounded square mast to the top. Any IDEAS are appreciated and input welcome. Aluminum is out of site on cost and I am ready to finish and get her wet. Jim A

Nice Lake, bben there a few times years back. Family has a half section of land just a few miles west of Perry, one of the few with woodlands and brushy creeks and a natural spring. Thanks Jim

Thanks Peter, beautiful boat, mine is almost there, just put the gunwales on to form up more before I remove, stain and reinstall. How tall are your masts? I am thinking I want 21 and 22 feet but I am not certian. It looks like yours are a bit higher than others I've seen. Thanks Again Jim

Peter and Ray, do you have pics that might hepl me envision your approach on this? Thanks, Jim

I am installing side steps on the aft decking to double as seating for hiking out. My coamings are 1 1/4" inch high and 1/2" thick as I doubled them during installation (yes on purpose f cause it looks neat). I am installing solid mahogany blanks 24" long on the deck side on the coaming which will make the coaming 1/4 " high for not so uncomfortable seating, and I can route the 1/4" down to the step/seat surface if it becomes and issue. I intend to cut kerfs in the step surface to make it look like planking and the kerfs will be deep enough to place black cord to make it look like deck stuffing/caulk. The idea is to cover the deck seams and make a practical step ad seat, and a little eye candy using the mahogany. I have installed toe boards, a bow sprit and a solid mahogany thwart seat that all have a beautiful ribbon grain. MY QUESTION IS: How far forward from the stern and how far aft of the oarlock should I install this little beasty? I am installing similar blanks on the forward side deck seams as well. I have cut the forward deck blanks and set them in place and they look pretty good in the raw and I expect they will be great when finished. All input is welcome. Pics coming.

What Lake were you folks on and where is it located in relation to OK City and Tulsa? Jim

Hey again to all. I have all my coaming parts cut and fitted in and am getting ready to attach to the carlin and forward deck beam. Any recommendations on attaching? My plan is to do the forward plates and work aft. Using thickened epoxy and once clamped into place I will screw in with 3/4 inch bronze screws. Weather is perfect, about 77 degrees. I am worried about making a mess as I will be doing this by myself. Input and advice appreciated. Jim

Hey again to all. I completed the deck installation, completed the forward deck with 90 some bronze screws on a three to four inch spread along the sides and 2 to 3 to 4 to 6 inch spread down each side of the center line. Looks great and tight fit at the seam. Side decks are on as well as the plates underneath to join sections. Still a little fill work to do, some at the joins and some along the sides where the deck meets the sides where I miss cut the sides or flubbed up, nothing over 1/8 inch, just filler work, most is done. All deck is routed outside and inside and most sanding on the router work is complete. With the mahogany I got, which has some great red color, I want to stain the deck to add some red to the surface before I epoxy and varnish. Talked to my Mopoxy provider and he said the epoxy will pull the stain out of the surface. I kind of want that Chris Craft color, a bit lighter, but I think it will better match the thwart mahogany. I have been playing with the color and tomorrow I am going to epoxy my stained scrap samples. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated as always. I am ready to cut and install the combing and need input there as well from you wizards. With deck curves and angles I bought some semi ridged 3/64ths poster board which I will cut into 8 inch strips about 40 inches long. These will be temporarily installed from forward to stern starting at the forward deck beam center line, butted together and working my way aft in sections to the transom. In the end I will have a template to lay out on the ply and cut with a little extra to sand in. I am thinking that 2.5 inch lip on forward deck side and bring down to 1 inch around the transom. I want to make it a little wider so it is a better back rest, up to 5 inches wide tapering to about 3 at the stern. What advice can ya'll provide? Do I need to think more about additional support around the forward beam? Maybe make the deck side double in thickness? My beam is 2.5 inches wide and the curved elements of the carlins with the deck are 2 inches. I think I just want to use thickened epoxy to glue into place, are screws advised? I've got lots and lots of clamps and the heat outside ought to set up well keeping clamps in place 24 hours. I will never be a wizard at this but more like "Ron" in the Harry Potter series with his broken wand. Thanks to All for feedback. Jim

Graham and All, how close should I space the fasteners around the bow to hold down the deck ply sheeting? I was looking at 3 inches until half way down the sides and then to four inches on the bow pieces. I was going to go to every 8 inches along the side decks as there is very little curve that will buckle the ply. I am geting ready to pre-drill the holes and slightly counter sink them to avoid divots around the screwheads. Any thoughts? Thanks Jim

Alright fellows, what is the recommended varnish (brand name please, by each of you and why?). So then, how many coats, at a minimum? Sand between each? I have really enjoyed the input and I want a bunch more before I begin putting the paste to the wood. I do like the idea of 220 or 230 (whatever) grit and mineral spirits to fill the pores and burnish. So how do I burnish? I have read about it but I really need more specific information on what this work entails and the best way to do this and be effective, and do it correctly. I have become a beginner. From being a rookie we have progressed to grade school on this project, love the growth. I can do a lot of "stuff" but your input has become so valuable that I almost itch to get more data. I am just an engineer I guess. I always look for as much information as possible before I dive in. Done that, screwed up and had to regroup, as I am sure we all have at one time or another, just a suspicion on my part. I really do look forward to your input. I am also glad to spark the discussion on finish work, because I am sure there are many others interested in getting this information so they can make a better informed decision and move forward. Some questions "AGAIN": What is your preferred varnish? Why? How to apply? Does bronze hardware, stainless steel screws discolor the wood at the attachment points? How much drying time between coats? 220 or 600 grit? Other little hints on application will always be appreciate, I am a beginner I think I will do the sanding and mineral spirits, and fill pores, epoxy the ply deck surface with two coats and varnish with several coats to give it depth. I am currently painting the inside. I did get the first coat on the seat sides, after four on the seat tops, the sides look awful, just need a few more coats for coverage. Will sand lightly in the morning and put on two more coats. The seats do look really nice, need a light sand and a finish coat or two. Need to touch up around the base of the gussets so that the sides and interior are free of paint and give a contrast wood perspective to the seats. So far looks cool. I did find I need to sand a bit between the Main mast "hole" and the mid mast spot to bring the ply deck together, between the sheets of ply where they meet in on the center line, curve of the deck I am sure, it does seem to be working, mostly. This is getting fun again, especially to be getting so close and even thought I know I am kinda far from finishing the boat. Would I do it again knowing what little I know about building one of these beasts? YES! In fact, so much so that I am going to build another smaller boat for my grandsons. It will be a B&B Design, a 12 to 14 footer I think. I will be starting just before they get back from Japan. This will be in about a year from now, mostly so they can participate in some of the sanding and banging, and banging and banging, and just getting messy, and finding out what you can do as little boys. Mostly I want to do this with them so they will still remember, as young boys, and teens and maybe later as adults, that they built a boat, a thing, with their "Papa", me. And also and their daddy (which will happen cause my son-in-law needs to be a big part of this with them (as all dads do) to be a leader for his sons. My daughter and I are scheming to make this happen, she will make sure, it is a woman plan. For all of you, and those that might read this and then have doubts about building one of these beasts, just do it, so what that if it is not perfect. SO WHAT. It will probably still float and you will have fun and accomplish something that few ever start and finish. Start with a small boat, 8 to 12 feet, do it with some kids. I now have five little "boat trolls", they don't do a whole lot but they do like to be a part of this monster. They do little cleaning, dusting, some sanding (to a point), they love to vacuum the dust up and have so much fun playing in the boat as it is built. It has become the pirate fort, the pirate ship, (even a princess castle, forgive me. We have had sword fights (sticks and foam swords) and we all die at some point. Always appropriately and always with great flare (it is a requirement to die correctly as a pirate and we practice the appropriate way to fall to the deck and moan and groan). Kids, they are amazing. Kids, they are the greatest support group that you will ever find especially when you realize the boat is a thing and they can dent it and bump it and bruise it, but the marks they leave will be those you cherish and be glad for when sailing alone remembering the build and the children who found a pirate fort and a private safe place to hide in and even camp in overnight. We have scheduled an overnight camp out, in the boat, in the driveway, with some the appropriate "some mores" and hot dogs well before we launch for all the kids that called this their playground. And best of all, WE got to watch them laugh and play. They made it theirs.............REALLY COOL. Blessings to ALL As a FATHER, to You, Happy Fathers Day and God Bless you ALL Jim Atkinson Maria CS 20 "104"

John, I really like your work on the thwart. Tthe dual compasses (I think)and the pockets are a cool addition. For all: Do I finish the plywood the same way as mahogany ( it is hondurian mahogany per the lumberyard). I was thinking that I would epoxy the surface for a bright finish, but if I do that, do I need to varnish with several coats for UV protection? I am getting close to installing the deck but have a bit of painting to complete on the seats and on the inside on the bottom and seat sides. I sealed all interior surfaces with four coats of epoxy and am now painting over with antique white to match the hull. Looking really neat. I did mask off the inside sides and gussets, the plan is too leave them alone, epoxied with three coats as a contrast to the seats and tying them into the combings which will be bright as well. Thanks for the input folks Jim

I found a really nice piece of american mahogany at a local higher end lumber yard and it is beautifully grained and colored. I will be using it for the Thwart seat and I need data on finishing for best effect and a long life. I have been reading all I can find and there is a bunch of different approaches. I am thinking I'll put on a thinned coat of epoxy to fill the pores, let dry allow and then sand down, repeating this several times until I see no pitting on the surface. Then I'll coat with two or three coats of epoxy. The board is 1" x 12" x 11' and will allow me to make a few accent pieces and will also tie in well with the deck as we are doing all we can to keep the deck clean and bright. Look forward to your input. Thanks, Jim

While the fiber glass and epoxy were a bit loose we sprayed Remlube down into the primary plastic wrap and into the secondary plastic strips. We let is "drain into the gap and after about 20 minutes we, the 280 beast friend of ours and I at 210 lbs grabbed mid and bottom sections and pressed down and got movement, after a bit it slid and we stopped. We will leave it on for the night to cure out and slip it off when hardened. I plan to mix a bot of epoxy with wood fiber in the morning and lay it on the outside for effect making it look like a wood spar and giving a bit of extra strength, a bit of boost, then sand down to the right diameter to the tube hole fro installation, mud it up a bit to blend into the wood matrix for the look and feel of real wood. Got consensus and I think it will be just another thing that looks good and highlights a home made boat. Jim

Thanks Pete, always like feedback. I did forget that the pork roast should be rolled in heavy ground pepper and sprinkled lightly with crushed rock salt. Jim

Appreciate the input, always glad to get as much advice as possible, allows my little brain to ponder the various approaches to the challenges that occur during the building of this critter. I did get the mast tube setup, see my latest post. Fiberglass sausage but looking likt it will work. Jim