What style boats would you like to see?

[yggmeanhorse]

Hi Jeff,

I am interested in a small sail boat. Have you considered designing some thing that does not use SOF? Say for the catamaran. Also I would be interested in a tandam kayak, an out rigger, a more stable sea kayak ( so I could take a first timer out ). What I have really been looking forward too is that sailing kayak that you were talking about before. I saw a fiberglass one for sail last year, it was more or less a trimaran. That thing looked really cool. I am hoping that you design some thing like that. Even if its not really a sailing kayak but more of a small trimaran or how ever it turns out.

Jay

[DURRETTD]

Jeff,

A sailing kayak sounds like a good idea. I have a Hobie Adventure Island (a 16' polyethylene trimaran) that is a blast. The only problem I have with it is that it's heavy. I have to strip off the outriggers, mast, and all of my gear to drag it up the creek bank. Getting it on top of the van is more work than I care to do often. A light SOF system would be greatly appreciated.

Of course, building a SOF trimaran that would take the heeling and rudder forces and still be light enough to retain the advantages of a SOF would be a challenge. If you can pull it off you'll earn enough "atta boys" to be a true hero. If you could also make the center hull a double kayak we'd have to find some additional space on Mount Rushmore.

Dan

[Art Mulder]

I just have not had a lot interest in canoes. But maybe some sort of open cockpit, two-person design? Some sort of hybrid? Something I have not thought of?

How about a decked canoe.

Totally doable but as I mentioned, Stonefly has had so little interest that I am really hesitant to put a lot of effort into another canoe.

Jeff, I was going to ask why you think there is no interest in canoes.

But then I saw your second comment about Stonefly.

I have no interest at all in Stonefly because it is a solo boat. I would be VERY interested in a canoe, but it needs to hold more than one person. I would think that the market for solo canoes would be a tiny fraction of that of regular canoes.

I have a family. We went backcountry camping last summer with another family for the first time. We're planning to do it again this summer. 11 people fit in 4 canoes. Along with all our gear. (admittedly, 4 of the kids were under 10, and therefore small!) We couldn't do something like this in Kayaks.

Jeff, I find the SOF method fascinating, and I'd love to build something. But I probably will not build a kayak until my wife and I are empty nesters. So that is over 10 years out. On the other hand, a ~17' canoe, where I can put two adults and 1-2 kids in it would hold a lot of interest.

[woodman]

You might consider taking the forms that come with a strip built canoe and converting that into a SOF. If the design has stations every 12'' just omit every other one...

Do a multi chine design...similar to this kayak..

[yggmeanhorse]

Thats a good point about the canoe. I would be more interested in one that would hold a few people.

Jay

[Kudzu]

If you could also make the center hull a double kayak we'd have to find some additional space on Mount Rushmore.

ROFLOL

I will get back to the sailboats eventually. I was ready to build the trimaran but the big issue is the mast. I want to stay free standing (no shrouds) for simplicity. That imposes some limits that concerned me. I try to focus on keeping the boats simple and the costs down. A carbon fiber mast could solve a lot of problems but price is a big issue. Building one is possible but not something most people want to take on. Windsurfer masts are to flexible for good performance. I keep coming back building a wood mast, using birds mouth construction. Plus quite a few other small details I just don't know how to do yet.

[woodman]

What about making a sail rig to adapt to you're exhisting line of kayaks...

[woodman]

Hay Jeff...A stand-up-paddle board....this could be a first

[woodman]

An open cockpit tandem for fishing....

[Kudzu]

I mentioned this (maybe not on here?) but I started looking at adding a sailing rig to my boats but other than the canoe it 's not really feasible. no easy to way to add outriggers and then there the problem of where to put the mast not to mention a rudder. The more I look at sailing kayaks the more I think a purpose designed trimaran makes more sense. As in a much more comfortable, it should be drier and not just a big compromise.

Paddle boards... not from me. ZERO interest! Looks like the most useless thing I have seen. Surfing with one might be fun, but for flat water I just don't get it.

Looking at tandem ideas now. I can safely say there is a tandem coming in the future. I am hearing the calls, just not sure what style yet. I am thinking the demand is more for a recreational style than a two cockpit skinny boat. I would prefer the latter if I was going to own a tandem. But I don't really want one very much.

Also looking at something to fish from, bigger boat powered with oars?. Standing stability for fly fishing is sort of what I am thinking.

I am listening to the suggestions. I am making a list of some of the ideas that have been tossed out that appealed to me.

[P Doug (WA)]

The thing that kept me from the Stonefly is it is a one person canoe. I'd be a lot more interested it is was a 2 person at least.

[JeffM]

Jeff, you may know me from the old days (pre-Kudzu forum), when you used to post at the Main and B&B areas. After building a Core Sound 20 and a few other boats, I began to get interested in kayaks a few years ago, and am just now looking into SOF. One thing I'm considering is building SOF boats with my boat-building day camp this summer. I'm looking for an easy-to-build two-seat kayak or similar that will take one adult and one child. I'm thinking of building your FreeB 14 soon just to get my feet wet, while I consider how I can adapt kayak-building to the capabilities of maybe 10 6th-graders over a period of 4 weeks. (I did a similar program last summer, building simple straight-cuts boats. From my experience, one difficulty is having enough jobs that can be done simultaneously by a group of kids overseen by only two adults.)

[Hirilonde]

(I did a similar program last summer, building simple straight-cuts boats. From my experience, one difficulty is having enough jobs that can be done simultaneously by a group of kids overseen by only two adults.)

That really is the key to any project involving a group of kids. So many well meaning adults pick a project that sounds intriguing but has a terrible application for use by such a group. And if you can't keep them busy with something relevant and fun then you lose them. They will only watch and listen for so long before you had better have something for them to do, and most busy work doesn't help. If it isn't relevant they know and if it isn't at least amusing if not fun then their attention wanders.

Does the boat you build really have to be usable by an adult and a child? This really puts some limitations on what you build. Jeff doesn't have any tandem kayak designs and his canoe has much more difficult steps in it. Definitely build a Freebie first so you know what the tasks are first hand. I think you will find that cutting frames is an adult or older child project, but much of the rest of the build is very doable. The sewing can become boring to those not focused. So even though they can certainly learn to do it, some will find it tedious and lose interest. I have a lot of patience, but had to do it in steps.

I think in general that building a sof kayak is quite viable for your program. But is there any way you can supervise a couple kids at a time paddling their own solo Freebie or such? I have taken Boy Scouts on over night canoe trips with 1 adult per 10 boys and no adults in the same canoe as the boys and they are 5th-high school. We did require a swimming test, canoe instruction and practice before going though. Only reasonably strong swimmers are allowed in canoes at all.

[Kudzu]

Jeff, you may know me from the old days (pre-Kudzu forum), when you used to post at the Main and B&B areas. After building a Core Sound 20 and a few other boats, I began to get interested in kayaks a few years ago, and am just now looking into SOF. One thing I'm considering is building SOF boats with my boat-building day camp this summer.

Yea I do and I would still like to have a CS_20 but I know it's not going to happen. Finally sold my plans a couple of years ago. I miss sailing and am looking at building a sail boat of some sort maybe this summer? Probably be next year though.

I'm looking for an easy-to-build two-seat kayak or similar that will take one adult and one child. I'm thinking of building your FreeB 14 soon just to get my feet wet, while I consider how I can adapt kayak-building to the capabilities of maybe 10 6th-graders over a period of 4 weeks. (I did a similar program last summer, building simple straight-cuts boats. From my experience, one difficulty is having enough jobs that can be done simultaneously by a group of kids overseen by only two adults.)

Dave made some excellent points. I would think multi-chine boats would not be a good choice. But with all the lashing required that could keep 3 or 4 kids busy per boat, but it's going to get old fast I think. So single chine designs would be a better idea. Not sure your budget but more than one boat at a time is a good thing. 2 boats could keep 6 kids working at lashing without tripping over each other. Must less lashing but it might still get a little old for them.

With the right design you can get around sewing which I agree could get old on a kayak, but a canoe doesn't have much sewing. The sides are stapled to the boats gunwales and then covered with a wood rub strip.

I have a design in the works that I think would be a good choice for a couple of reasons. I posted my idea for pirogue a couple of weeks ago but it didn't receive much love on here, The concept was two passenger, simple to build and low cost. I have some ideas I want to try that would cut sewing down to a minimum or maybe all together. was thinking of Boy Scout or youth groups when I came up with this boat. It should be about as easy to build as I can make one. Design is not done but it is in the works.

[JeffM]

Thanks, Dave. We built two boats last year, and I figure to build two this year also. I picture teams of two each cutting a frame. I picture teams of two each tying a lashing. Granted, some fiddly bits will need smaller teams. I plan to run this camp with dual tracks: boat-building and studying traditional culture of those who invented sof. That's one way to occupy half the group to cut down on jobs being done at one time. Jeff, I'm happy to hear you have a tandem design underway. I specified adult and child (or two kids) for both participation and safety reasons. (If I drown my kids, I suspect I'll be out of a job!) I looked last year for a way to send boats home with kids (such as selling then to families for the cost of materials), but in the end chickened-out: they remain the property of the program, and are stored in the basement of the church that sponsors the camp.

[wd0d]

Jeff,

I would like to see a 50/50 sailing canoe in a sof design. Your Mess About seems close to the specs that would likely be needed. I say close because a 28" beam is probably a tad too narrow. A 15'-17' boat with a 32" beam that could be paddled at 3.5 mph would be right on target. Sort of a sof Bufflehead sailing canoe.

Personally, I would like a boat that I could actually sleep in. We have a lot of mangrove islands here in SW Florida that provide shelter from the wind but are not suitable for camping, which is what I would like to do with the boat. I want the sail 50% because I am too lazy/old/out of shape to just paddle to where I want to go. Plus we usually have some sort of wind down here.

Bob

Fort Myers