ecgossett Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 I got my sails back from sail maker today and discovered they only have one set of reef points not the two I had thought where being added. Does anyone know if one set meets the requirements for the Everglades Challange? It's only about 35-40% of each sail being reefed. We used the plans Carla sent for sails for the proper locations. Does anyone have good design points that could be lofted so I can laminate a nice curve for my sprit booms? When the boom is windard I really hate how the sail hangs/drapes up on it. Quote
Tom Lathrop Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I recently built wishbone booms for my Lapwing and gave them an 8:1 chord to depth ratio for each half. This is perhaps not enough as the sails still hit the booms a when not adjusted to the flattest shape I would shoot for about a 7:1 ratio for the full length booms with the max depth occurring about 30% to 35% aft of the forward end. The aft 30% of the booms will have only a slight curvature. This is not a true foil shape but you don't need to be picky about that. Remember that the greater the depth of curvature of the booms, the more stress and bending that will be occur. To make the rigging and unrigging reasonably simple, one end of the boom should be able to open to get past the set up mast. There is a thread on the forum somewhere than has more discussion on wishbooms as well as some photos of my set up. Quote
Dale Niemann Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Early on about 3 years or so ago, I had Dabbler sails re-do my sleave sails to a track configuration. Stu added two reef points and they have served me very well. I have sailed my 'Lively' CS17 in winds up to about 25 with higher gusts double reefed and had no problems. I live where the EC starts and have watched with great interest over about 5 or 6 years the weather etc. that thses guys sail in. I can tell you without a doubt, I would not want to sail the EC with only one reef point. Get yourself a second reef point and you will never be sorry especially if you are considering the EC. By the way, I am very happy with track mounted sails, also. Dale Quote
Alan Stewart Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Edward, The sail reduction requirements for the watertrbe are pretty clear (below) and really, no one is going to be measuring you especially because the CS17 is a well proven boat but you can do the numbers for your own satisfaction. Basically there are some "musts" you have to follow. -Alan Reduction of Sail Area..... All sailing boats must have methods for reducing sail area while underway. All boats with sails over 1 square meter must have a practical, tested means of reducing sail area for strong wind. Sail reduction must be possible while under way in rough water, without causing loss of control or stability, or other danger to the crew. Boats must be able to reduce main sail area in increments of not more than 33% by any of the following means: Slab/jiffy reefing, zippered panels, roller reefing. Total working sail area must be able to be reduced in increments of not more than 25% by any of the following means: Slab/jiffy reefing, zippered panels, roller reefing, lowering/furling/removing one sail in multiple-sail rigs, or replacing one sail with a smaller one in multiple-sail rigs. A storm sail that is set in place of the mainsail is allowed but does not qualify in meeting the above sail reduction rules.9 It must be possible to reduce sail area to 60% of total working sail or less. The boat must be balanced, controllable and able to sail efficiently to windward under the reduced sail plan. Sailboat crews may be required to demonstrate sail reduction techniques during prerace equipment check. Exception: Boats with under 4 sq. m. (43 sq. ft.) total sail area may elect to have only one reef which reduces sail by not less than 20% of total area, but are encouraged to adhere to the general standards as above. Quote
hokeyhydro Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Good grief! Safety first I reckon, but that's a lot of reefing = down to 60% of the sail area. Track sails, wishbone sprits, and lazy jacks are looking good for a cat ketch. Quote
Terry Dunn Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 In the Texas 200 we spent a good amount of time double reefed hitting the upper 9 mph range at times. Track sails. I don't know how much sail area each reef reduced. I suggest two reefs as well. Quote
MisterMoon Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 I dropped out of the EC last year becuase I didn't have enough reef points. I was technically within the rules and could reduce by 40%, but it wasn't enough. I had my hands full off of Stump Pass on Sunday morning when a 25+ knot squall line rolled through and kicked up the seas into the 4-6' range and Gasparilla was dead to windward. I really wanted another reef or two in big main on Daysailer sloop I took last year. When I finally dropped early on Tuesday morning at Caxambas Pass south of Marco Island, it was largely due to being seriously overpowered the night before. Because of my overpowered condition, I nearly lost it coming into Caxambas at 1 AM and lost an oar in the process. The weather forecast was for even stronger winds on the nose for the rest of the week and I decided it wasn't worth the risk as we headed down into the really remote wilderness part of the EC. Observing the weather after I dropped out showed this to have been the right decision on my part. My CS17 has two reefs in each the main and mizzen and tracked sails. I wish I had the second mast step installed, to give one more sail shortening option for this year's EC, but alas I don't have the time to do it properly. I have figured out that I can sail my boat under reasonable control on just the deeply reefed mizzen however. I strongly advise you to get another set of reefing cringles installed in each sail. Quote
Dale Niemann Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 I have the third mast step and have never used it. The problem is to pull a mast and move it in bad weather is just about impossible. Even if you are able to hide behind and island or something, double reefs in both sails are definitely better in my opinion. dale Quote
ecgossett Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 I'm going to have to make at least one sprit boom for the main sail. After many tests when we are on a stbd tack we are 1-2knots slower always probably due to sail draped over boom.. Now I just have to figure out how much of a curve I need. A little worried that reefing lines will have issues with this due to curved boom. Quote
hokeyhydro Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Edward - do a search on this forum for "wishbone sprit". I think it was Tom Lathrop who made a set for a B&B Lapwing. I seem to recall the curve was more than the design draft (curve) of the sail. Nor sure if the curved wishbone was worth 2 knots but it is at least 10 points on the cool meter. For reefing I think the wishbone would be easier. Switch the sprit-to-boom attachment, drop sail, and if you have a few lines running from side to side on wishbone = instant lazy jacks! Quote
hokeyhydro Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 starter link -> http://messing-about.com/forums/topic/5487-wishbone-booms/ Quote
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