Paul J Posted April 4, 2003 Posted April 4, 2003 I have been gone from the forums for a bit, have been dealing with some things that have been time consuming. But I have been still working as much as I can. Here is a pic of a full batten sail I have been working on for West Wright Potter 15's. Frank ought to find my design for the boat interesting as he has seen the P 15 in person. A bit of a different sail design eh Frank. This pic is in really light air but the boat is making headway. Quote
capt jake Posted April 4, 2003 Posted April 4, 2003 Very nice looking Paul. We have missed you. Hope things are going well. Quote
Johannah Posted April 4, 2003 Posted April 4, 2003 Hmmmmmm, that sounded like "guy talk" for "I just had triple bypass surgery but am hand sewing sails while lying flat on my back." :? Hope you are well Paul, and it's nice to hear your voice. The Potter sail is really intruiging. I have seen other sails with that shape at the head, but didn't know where to find out the explanation. Are you in the mood for another tutorial? 8) Quote
capt jake Posted April 4, 2003 Posted April 4, 2003 TRIPLE BYPASS!?! Gosh Jo, no wonder we haven't heard much from you lately. I hope all is well, it must be if you are sewing while in bed. Take care Jo! Oh Jo, I take you too seriously sometimes. I just re-read your post. LOL My mistake. Quote
Paul J Posted April 4, 2003 Author Posted April 4, 2003 Jo, My health is fine, no real problems but my Dad, well I have to call next week to find out about the latest tests. The bugger is only 85 you know and he is a real grouch, I am a sweetheart compared to him. The sail is called a square top. That sail is the first of two I am designing and making. The first one shown here is being tested by a couple of boat owners in the Bay area. This sail is not a complete square top but it is close the next one will be even closer to a true square top. The object is to put as much sail area on a short mast [only a 16' mast] and get as much above the water surface as possible where the wind is truer. I have about 80 sq ft on this sail give a little. The next one will have a couple of more sq ft. One of the ideas here is to create a effiecent airfiol shape much like that of an airplane wing. So it develops maxium lift for it's size and shape. And this is what we would call low speed foil shape. The full battens support the sail shape as it would just fall down with out support. Reports so far are that the sail points a little higher in light air and really performs on a reach when the wind picks up to around 10 mph. It has been a fun project so far. I don't get to do pure design work alot so when I get a chance I go for it. All in all I have to say it is going well, my thinking seems to be on line with my desires for the sail. But time will tell as it always does. Well I hope that is of some help. Quote
Frank Hagan Posted April 4, 2003 Posted April 4, 2003 That's a great looking sail for the pugnacious Potter 15! I think it looks better than the standard bermudan sail ... it fits in better with the lines of the boat, IMHO. I think the original Potter 14 was a plywood boat created in England, and the modern fiberglass version still evokes that memory. They are now manufactured by International Marine in Southern California. Quote
Barry Pyeatt Posted April 4, 2003 Posted April 4, 2003 Nice looking sail Paul. I really like the way it looks on the Potter. I was impressed with the stayed sails on the America's Cup boats and how they managed to accomplish such increased sail area and shape. This is great. Quote
Sailor3356 Posted April 4, 2003 Posted April 4, 2003 I like the sail, I've seen it before but never put it to much thought. But seeing it in your picture I'll have to reconsider it. Quote
Konrad in Lincoln Posted April 4, 2003 Posted April 4, 2003 Oh my word, a Potter. I don't think they MAKE a slower boat, do they? Just ribbin' you, man. Quote
Gordy Hill Posted April 4, 2003 Posted April 4, 2003 That's really interesting Paul! That top tell-tail looks a bit listless. Since it's such light wind, I'd guess that with just a bit more wind you'd have the twist just right. I really like full battens. On your top batten I like the way you've angled it to hold up the head of the sail. Does it present a problem furling the sail? Quote
Frank Hagan Posted April 5, 2003 Posted April 5, 2003 Oh my word' date=' a Potter.I don't think they MAKE a slower boat, do they? [/quote'] Potters are cool boats. Sold direct, no dealers. A group of dedicated owners who love their boats, and are very friendly. Flat bottomed, hard chined, so they sail "flat." And probably just as fast as a Weekender or Vacationer (although in light airs, the Stevensons Projects boats would win because they are much lighter without all that ballast). Plus they can point better due the rig. Quote
capt jake Posted April 5, 2003 Posted April 5, 2003 (although in light airs, the Stevensons Projects boats would win because they are much lighter without all that ballast). Now Ray has to see that!! Quote
Johannah Posted April 5, 2003 Posted April 5, 2003 Thanks for the "workshop" Paul. I really enjoy thinking about your tutorial comments. Adds to the pleasure of observing boats. Hope the senior geezer in your family is doing OK. Quote
Frank Hagan Posted April 6, 2003 Posted April 6, 2003 All in a package that tows on a trailer weighing in below 2000 lbs fully loaded' date=' and stores in the garage for the winter.[/quote'] Wasn't aware of the sail area on the Potters (although I should have been ... I have the brochures here!) I don't know what the 15 weighs, but I'll bet its more than the 500 - 600 pounds of a Weekender. And the daggerboard has to induce some drag in light airs that the Weekender doesn't contend with. Add a genoa to the Potters, and that would help downwind. You are right about boats being a compromise ... every single one of them. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted April 6, 2003 Posted April 6, 2003 The boat the test sail is on weights about the same as an average weekender. Now the sail area on the boat as shown is 108.5 sq ft. Thats 80 sq ft in my mainsail and 28.5 sq ft in the headsail which is a lapper not the standard jib. As I said the reports are that the boat points higher with the squaretop main to windward and is a bit faster than the standard mainsail. When on a reach the boat sailed away from all the other potters that where out there that day. I don't know if the Potter 15 with these sails is as quick as a weekender but they should now be just about even. The whole object in this test sail is to make the 15 faster, as always it is up to each sailor to know how to trim his boat. Yeah Ray the sail has twist designed into it but in really light air like in the photos it is going to be hard to develop. Not much pressure on the sail. Here's a photo of the boat with the square top next to one with the standard mainsail [the red and yellow one] so you can see the difference. I hope to be getting more photos of the sail in more wind so I can see just what it looks like before I design and make the next one. Quote
Johannah Posted April 6, 2003 Posted April 6, 2003 Hoo boy, Paul, there are an awful lot of Potters around and about. If you tweak this new rig to the point that the other boats feel left behind, you'd better hide because the sail orders are going to go nuts. Were I the manufacturer, I'd buy the new design and offer it as an alternative from the start! Truly cool. 8) Quote
Paul J Posted April 6, 2003 Author Posted April 6, 2003 Ray, Not to nit pick but I will. The difference is not 50% or so less in sail area it's really the P-15 has 72.5% of a weekender, both being standard. With the lapper and the test main the difference is the P-15 has 9% less sail area. Just to nit pic. But remember the P-15 unlike the weekender has a shallow V hull not a flat bottom. The centerboard is an asset to the boat not the opposite. The full keel of the weekender has many times the surface area of a board and does not develop the same lift. The P-19 is a whole nother story as it has a back stay and there are lots less options than the P-15 which does not have one. With the P-15 alot of things can be done with mainsail design, there is way less that can be done when a boat has a back stay. I will be working on some things for P-19's but I am going one design at a time here. I have done what I can for weekenders and am working on the P-15 next I plan on seeing about the P-19 and what I can do there. These are small boats and I am a small boat sailor as I can't afford anything bigger and I have already been there done that. So keep the faith and I will get to the 19. Oh and I have to email you about some stuff. I got yours and have to respond. I'll do that today sometime. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted April 7, 2003 Posted April 7, 2003 Ray' date='Not to nit pick but I will. The difference is not 50% or so less in sail area it's really the P-15 has 72.5% of a weekender, both being standard. With the lapper and the test main the difference is the P-15 has 9% less sail area. Just to nit pic. quote'] Well I can Nitpick too. I think mystatement was that the Stock Weekender carries nearly 50% more sail area then the Stock P-15. Stocl p-15 carries 87 square feet and stock Weekender has 120. Not exactly 50 % more, The Weekender would have to carry 123 sqaure feet for that but it is close. Quote
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