Guest wwbaginski Posted October 14, 2007 Posted October 14, 2007 My (future) BRS17 is supposed to be rowed (sometimes, but intensely) during sailing/rowing raid in Finlandand, and during sea beach cruising in Poland. Has she been rowed by two? Are there some suggestions how to arrange front rowing station - there's a board element sticking out close to an oarsman bench. How long oars are most efficient? I'm sure there're many more questions on rowing. I'll appreciate any tips and suggestions. wojtek Quote
Greg Luckett Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 wojtek, I just noticed that you had not received a reply of your questions, and I do not know the answers myself. Perhaps you should repost the questions about two station rowing in a more general sense? Greg. Quote
Tom Lathrop Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 Perhaps Graham should answer but I will give a thought. The BRS 17 is pretty beamy for easy rowing by a single person with two oars. The EC 22 is rowed by two sitting in staggered seats, each with one long oar. That might be the best solution. The forward rower might need a little seat that is removable and placed on the centerboard trunk. Don't know how that would affect the balance of the boat. Quote
Doug Cameron Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 I, too, would like to hear people's thoughts about this. I am well alnong with a CS 20 for the Everglades race. I have been wrestling with two people rowing from staggered seats (11 1/2 foot oars, and you would have to ship the missen mast. This is usually sone from opposite sides (person on port rowing on starboard)) vs one rowing and the other with a yuloh off the transom (beter vision for long stints, but the length of oars for such a wide boat would be hard work . . . and, again, the ideal rowing seat would require shipping the missen.) -- how's that for a convoluted sentence? I hope to be in the water within a month! Doug Quote
Tom Lathrop Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 Having to ship the mizzen would be real bummer for rowing. Why do you think that is necessary? Quote
Gordy Hill Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 My CS17 rowed remarkably well from a position forward of the mizzen with 8 1/2 foot oars. Doug, you might consider a comfortable rowing position for just one oarsman. There will be enough rowing to go around and it would work out nicely if the guy resting manned the tiller. For two-up rowing you could leave the oarsman with one oar and move the other back to where the person at the helm could use it while facing forward and steering. I think you'll find it useful to be able to sail in light wind and be assisted by rowing. All that said, Graham and Randy did very well with Randy helping out with just one oar when the wind went light. Gordy Quote
Doug Cameron Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Tom -- The design calls for the thwarrt/seat in the center to be the mount for the missen. The design position for the oarlocks are just (11"?) aft of that. The folks at Shaw and Tenney say that effective one-oar/two-person leverage requires that you be on the opposite side. Gordy -- The alternate rowing/steering would work for short distances, but I would think that the yuloh would be more efficient over time. (Michael is working two jobs now, so he's not doing much fittness training) I could not keep up with Matt Layden when he was using the yuloh in his 600# Paradox and I was rowing a 650# Sea Pearl that was seven or eight feet longer. I think that the length and subsequent weight of the oars gets you on larger boats. On my little Shellback I can row for hours, and do so much faster than I did on the Sea Pearl. I think those are 7' or 7 1/2 foot oars and the boat is just over 11'. Oh, the choices. . . Centerboard is in and the decking on the forward seats goes on tomorrow. Rudder and housing is made. Still have the deck and lots and lots of sanding and painting. Doug Quote
Guest wwbaginski Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Thanks a lot for all comments. I think that's Greg's good idea to explain why I want to go for two rowing stations. First, Raid Finland is a race (I think I attached a link at my first post to this group). A race at typical Finnish archipelagos where you sail among hundreds of rocky islands. If it blows from a bow, it,s better to start rowing in narrow channels and passages between islands instead of tacking on and on to make the same route. If there's no wind, you have to row obviously. It was the reason for choosing BRS 17 for next year Raid Finland instead of CS 17 - a narrower hull, a smaller weight, better designer's recomendations for rowing. On the other hand, there's lot of wind to have a very nice sailing, too. This is a link to the photo set (author: Ville Lindfors, please ask him in case of using any of them) showing "Vips" -Tom Dunderdale designed New Apple, build and skipped by Peter Lord. I was Peter's navigator and oarsman this summer. You can see Vips at different conditions, finally rowed by two after damaging a rudder on rocks : http://www.iki.fi/ville.lindfors/Vips/ New Apple beam is 5'3" (BRS17 is 5'4 1/2") and it was absolutely not too wide. In fact I had a pair of longer oars at my front rowing station than Peter, who was sitting aft. Sometimes I was rowing alone, not too bad, but rowed by two , Vips was going twice faster. We always rowed together when it was more beneficial for a race. Second, on Polish Baltic coast, what in fact is 350 km long sandy beach, in wind blowing from the sea you have to go through a coastal chop to get to a deeper area allowing for regular sailing. I'm afraid one oarsman will hardly manage it. Again, two will do much better. Quote
Greg Luckett Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 wojtek, I am eager to learn how that race goes next year and how you do as well. It sounds like a lot of fun! What kind of boat is that lapstrake looking one that there are so many pics of? Thanks for sharing about it. Quote
Guest wwbaginski Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Greg, the lapstrake boat is New Apple I was navigating and rowing during 2007 raid. I will compete with her (and many other boats) during 2008 raid as a skipper on my own BRS17. I showed her just to illustate my raid experience on which is my decision based, and raid reality. wojtek Quote
Greg Luckett Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Greg, the lapstrake boat is New Apple I was navigating and rowing during 2007 raid. I will compete with her (and many other boats) during 2008 raid as a skipper on my own BRS17. I showed her just to illustate my raid experience on which is my decision based, and raid reality. wojtek wojtek, How did you like the New Apple? Pro's & Con's? Is a Raid = a Race? I like the raid thing.....speaks to my heritage I guess.... Greg Quote
Doug Cameron Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Brad, thanks for the references. I am leaning more and more toward some sort of sculling oar. I may have the boat in the water before the sails get here, so I can practice and still have time to get a set of oars. I'l put the oar sockets on the boat just in case. wojtek, great shots and a fast boat. You should come to the Everglades Challenge sometime. Doug Quote
PeterP Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 If I were going for speed and efficiency in a two man boat I'd go for two staggered oars. They would be longer - yes -but heck of a lot more potent and still half the lumber to stow inside. Also, if you are the aft guy, your kidney will thank you every time you catch a crab. I would definitively put a bungee cord keeper on the tiller to keep me going straight while rowing. PeterP Quote
Guest wwbaginski Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 New Apple was sailing very well, Peter is an experienced skipper and he attended Raid for the fifth time or something like that. So I was lucky to have a very good teacher. I was focused on my oars and maps, so the only contra thing (as for me of course) was too much complicated main lug rig , but Peter was managing it with no problem. Vips had her mizzen looking like a lug but in fact it was a sprit sail, so I studied it closer to be prepared for BRS rig managing. Evergladess? May be some day :-) wojtek Quote
kentsu Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 Hi Wojtek, Wanted to know how your BRS building is in process. As I am also interested in building one boat. The Raid Finland Race sound interesting, and as I am from Finland it could by something to look forward to in the future.. Quote
Guest wwbaginski Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 Hi Ken as for Raid Finland I answered in another topic (started by you) and here I ought to tell something about project progress. Well I'm going opposite: I have my sails ready (Graham has designed a racing set for my BRS17) first. This month I'm working on masts and a trailer.. (BTW the question to 3 section alu masts users: did you make your masts of T6 6061 only? Has anyone replaced this 6061 with something different? I have problems to find it here). Next month I will start to build the hull. I intend to have my boat ready for July race. Quote
Ken_Potts Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 There's a good discussion of the potential danger of using something other than 6061-T6 here http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=2717.0 If 6061-T6 is not available where you are Graham can probably help you choose an alternative. Quote
Greg Luckett Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 There's a good discussion of the potential danger of using something other than 6061-T6 here http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=2717.0 If 6061-T6 is not available where you are Graham can probably help you choose an alternative. Ken, good "bird dogging". Thanks. Maybe that one would be a good candidate for the "Read only Articles" section? Quote
Guest wwbaginski Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 Thanks a lot for dismasting story and discussion. Most close to the design aluminium tubes available here are T6 6063. Here is specification in metric compared to US tubes in metric too: originally designed tube: 6061 T6 2,5 " x 0,083" = 63,5 x 2,1 mm 2,25" x 0,065"= 57,2 x 1,6 mm local tube : 6063 T6 60 x 3 mm 54 x 2 mm To be honest, Graham did not recommend them. :-\ Quote
Guest wwbaginski Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 However, it looks like mid section tube fits exactly to inner space of lower section tube. If I glued it in, I would have 5 mm wall. I have to check these tubes. How about this? What are most critical points of hard working mast beyond the point where it rises up from the fore deck or thwarts, anyway? Quote
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