Self tending jib rigging?

[PSwan]

Having sailed with the jib club foot on my Weekender for some time now, I like the ease of the self tending feature of a clubfoot, but I don't like the way it can't be furled completely without un-hooking the clubfoot.

Question: Has anyone ever heard of rigging a jib with the two traditional sheets, but reversing the port/starboard sheets in order to create sort of a self tending jib with port/starboard sheets? In other words, run the port sheet thru the starboard fairlead and the starboard sheet thru the port fairlead then both back aft as normal.

Or, does anyone know of a better way to quickly drop the jib attached to a clubfoot without unhooking the clubfoot?

[JeffM]

I don't follow. Is there anything to choose between the sheets in the first place? I haven't sailed sloops much, but I thought the jib sheet was all one piece of line with a couple of half hitches (or something) securing the middle to the clue.

[Charlie Jones]

Yep- put a jack line on the luff of the jib on the lower hanks, high enough so that when the jib is dropped, it let's the luff set back from the headstay enough for the club to drop all the way down.

It's a pretty traditional rigging on club jibs. Street discusses jack lines in "The Ocean Sailing Yacht" vol 1. You may find it via interlibrary loan.

The other method would be to rig an outhaul on the jib clew just like you do on the main, and slack that outhaul when you lower the jib.

[PAR]

They are a number of ways to furl, the easiest is with lazy jacks. These are lines that run down from the head to the boom (club) which permit the sail to flake neatly on top of the boom as it's lowered. They can cause chafe and windage, but on a trailered, cruising gaffer, not as big a concern.

You can also set the sail flying with it's tack set up on a tackle. When you want to douse the sail, you ease the halyard a bit, until the boom lands safely on the deck then slack the tackle on the tack, which will bring the foot of the sail inboard, onto the foredeck, where it can be manhandled.

A method I prefer is using two headstays, one accepts the hanks, the other holds the masthead. The stay the sail is hanked to, is setup on a tackle and the whole shooting match is slacked and brought onto the foredeck to douse. No walking the widow maker to handle the jib.

In most cases a down haul is handy to convince a stubborn headsail it's time to go home. A topping lift for the boom is also a handy bit of rigging, which keeps the boom from smashing into the deck when the halyard is slacked.

It may be possible to use a roller furler on a boom. You'd have to have nice slides or be loose footed. Once you release the clew, then twist 'er up on the wire with the roller line.

[Roger Morrison]

P Swan, not an answer, but a question about your Gaff Rig. Hope ya don't mind: Do You use two halyards on your main?

I've converted my Gramp 23 to a Gaffer, and haven't got things quite right by using only one halyard... Before stepping mast this season i'm planning a second up-haul on the Gaff itself???

Any suggestions? How high above mid-point of the Gaff would be correct?

Any help--from anyone--will be appreciated. Roger

[Craig]

Roger check out the Gaff Rig pages of this site to give you the information and drawings you seek.

[PSwan]

Thanks all for the suggestions. The two headstays sounds interesting and I may try it. Before I do, I think I'll try my reversed sheet set-up. It looks good on paper, we'll see. The drawing below shows what I'm thinking. If rigged right, I'm thinking it should turn into a self tending jib without the clubfoot.

Roger, regarding your question, yes, I do have a peak and throat haulyard on the main. I also have lazy jacks on the main to help contain things when lowering the gaff. I run all the haulyards on the cabin top with the main peak and throat to the port and the jib to the starboard.

[Dave R1]

I just thought I'd post a couple of pictures of a setup I tried the year before last. I put a roller furler on my jib and was planning to use the club. The geometry happened to work out so that the sail could be furled with the club attached. As it ended up I decided I don't like the self tending jib so I removed the club. Still, for someone who wants the club, this seems to work fine. Just an idea.

[PSwan]

Thanks for the pictures Dave . I really like your roller furler rig. Might give that a try. In these parts, winds are often light, variable and always blowing the wrong way, (I do a lot of tacking...) so a self tending or nearly self tending jib is handy.

Did you make you roller rig or buy one?

[Steve Day]

PSwan,

Your idea of using what normally would be the lazy sheet for the working sheet is pretty good, but the geometry will not work without something (club or boom) to keep the clew of the jib back in a favorable position. The way you have it drawn, the sail will get a big belly in it and luff terribly in any relative wind forward of about 135 degrees off the bow.

Good luck with your sailing adventures!

Steve

[Dave R1]

Thanks for the pictures Dave . I really like your roller furler rig. Might give that a try. In these parts' date=' winds are often light, variable and always blowing the wrong way, (I do a lot of tacking...) so a self tending or nearly self tending jib is handy.

Did you make you roller rig or buy one?[/quote']

I do a lot of tacking as well and find it's nice to let the jib get slightly back winded before letting it go to the opposite side. That seems to make the tack go faster.

The roller furler was something I found on eBay. I think I got it $15US. No brand name on it so I can't tell you who made it.

BTW, you might be able to tell, I have a luff wire in the jib so It is flown simply between the tack and the jib halyard. If I had to get it down in a hurry, I could just release the halyard and it would fall. With a separate forestay there's no worry about the mast coming down, too.

[PSwan]

Steve, I see your point with the drawing, the lazy sheet just won't keep enough aft tension on the clew and she'll likely luff badly. Looks like Dave and PAR's roller rig on a seperate headstay or Charlie's outhaul suggestion is the way to go if I still want any kind of self tending jib.

Charlie, I'm still trying to figure out your luff jack line suggestion refered to in "The Ocean Sailing Yacht" . I haven't been able to find a copy yet. Are you saying that the lower hanks of the jib are clipped to this jack line and not the headstay? If so, how is the jack line run?

[Dave R1]

FWIW, This photo shows the bowsprit and the way the jib is set up now.(or rather last summer. It should be the same this year) The jib anchors at the same distance from the mast as per the plans. The bowsprit is longer and the mast is taller. I suppose it would be easy enough to turn it into a cutter rig by running another sail up the forestay. There's already enough strings to pull though.

[capt jake]

I actually have two jibs I set up. One larger (Lapper) is places as Dave shows, also on a roller (Home built). The second is places slightly aft, also on a furler. The aft sail is quite a bit smaller than the lapper and is tended with the club, while the lapper has sheets. I use only one or the other, never both. Flying both is too much effort for the lack of results. I fly the lapper in lighter wind. I furl the lapper and fly the smaller sta'sl when I take a reef in the main. The balance is very nice and gives me more option while I am out and the wind changes. I like using the club when the winds are up as it frees up my hands to take care of other things.

[capt jake]

A previous thread on furling, though the pictures don't seem to be there any longer. I will see if I can find them.

http://www.messing-about.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2344&highlight=furling

[capt jake]

This is evidently all I have stored.

[PSwan]

Dave & Capt. Jake, thank you both for the replys and pictures. Both are beautiful boats BTW. Capt Jake, some of your pictures were my early inspiration during the building of Tiki.

I really like the roller furling system and will likely go that way. The second headstay seems the way to go here. I'm going to first remove the club and try just traditional jib sheets with a down haul to see how many lines I can keep track of while tacking. Will let you know how I finally work it out.

Here's a few pictures of the Tiki.

[Dave R1]

Thank you and your boat is lovely as well.

I really like the roller furler because I can furl the sail from the cockpit. This makes it much nicer especially when single handing the boat. the traditional two-sheet jib sheet arrangement is not really that hard to work and does give you better control over the jib's shape. I came up with a method for connecting the sheets to the sail that doesn't use any hardware. It is secure, easily worked with one hand and won't give anyone a black eye if they get hit with it while sitting on the foredeck. (My bride enjoys sitting there sometimes.)

Keep in mind that if you go with a roller furler, you really need a luff wire attached to the sail. The first year I did that, I ran the wire through the hanks on the sail. I seized the wier to the hanks and to the grommets at the head and tack. This worked fairly well but when I got the tanbark sails, I had the luff wire put in the luff properly.

Here is a picture of that sheet to clew attachment. The jib sheet line is one piece, middled with an Alpine Butterfly knot. There is a little strop on the sail with a stopper knot in one end and an eye in the other. You simply push the stopper through the loop in the butterfly and then through the eye in the strop. Just like buttoning a shirt.

Oh and by the way, I found a closeup of the roller furler from the first year I had it. I attached it to the bottom of the forestay just to try it out.

[Charlie Jones]

A jack line is a small line made fast at the tack cringle and at a grommet about 3 hanks up. You run little loops through each grommet on the way up and put a hank at each one, then put the line back through the grommet and on up to the next one. When the luff is hauled tight, the hanks are held tightl7y against the front edge of the sail and are attached to the head stay. When you slack the halyard, the line looped through the grommets allows each hank to go loose and the luff to move back from the headstay, giving lots of slack there.

Here's a link that shows a drawing of one way to rig it-

http://www.blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/0010/h0002.htm

[PSwan]

Dave & Charlie, thanks for the pictures, link and explanations. Boy, that jack line is a neat way to slack the jib luff, I would never in a million years have thought of that. Looks like an easy thing to rig up quickly and I'm going to give it a try until I can get a roller rig cobbled up. I also like it as it's very old school and I'm trying to keep Tiki vintage looking.