New Weekender Builder - couple of questions

[Paul A Gigl Jr]

Greetings,

I recieved my weekender plans a couple of weeks ago and have several questions. First, I was unable to find any means by which to order the video mentioned on the Stevenson's web site. After receiving no response to two emails sent weeks apart inquiring about this, I finally ordered the plans w/o video. The plans seem simple enough, but I am curious if there is any critical information contained on the video that is not within the plans package.

Second, I've poured over the posts regarding wood selection for the keel assembly and recognize that there is a wide array of wood being used for this. Locally, I can find clear fir and radiata pine for $80 per 1x12x16 and less desirable grades of SYP. Given this cost, I would prefer to go with white oak but have only been able to find shorter, narrower widths in FAS S2S. Is it reasonable to believe that a strong, durable keel could be produced by scarphing and edge joining these or would the single fir/pine board option handle the stress better? I am also curious if biscuit joints are acceptable for edge joining, or would these eventually become rot pockets. I should note that this will be trailered and primarily used in freshwater, although I would like to take it to the Outer Banks (NC) a time or two.

My other very time consuming keel choice would be to use cherry, but I am unable to find any information on its suitablity. I have a couple of standing trees that died last year and have entertained the thought of purchasing a chainsaw bar mill and planer to process them. From a cost standpoint, it would be about the same to purchase the equipment for this as it would to buy the oak. I am just leary about this approach as I do not want to invest so much time and money in a wood species that may not hold up well. If anyone is aware of cherry being used for boat building I would love to hear from them.

Thank You,

Paul A Gigl Jr

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paul@GiglJR.com

[Bud_Wilson]

Welcome aboard Paul G. There is a lot of info. in the video but I think you can make out without it. ALL questions can be answered on the board. Sometimes more answers than you need, but help is here. post your location and there might be a builder in your area to help find your building material at a better price. From your post I would guess your location to be in the mid Atlantic area. I like the white oak for the keel but there are other options if the price is to much. please don't let the cherry get away saw them down and just store them in logs for right now. the cherry makes beautiful bright work for your trim and works very well. Y'all Come Cap'N Bud

[Barry Pyeatt]

Welcome to the madness Paul,

The video will add considerably to the process in helping to understand some of the process. Reading the plan sheets is fine, but watching the process helps a whole lot more for the majority of the builders. It is my understanding that the Stevensons are currently in the process of redoing the video into a DVD with more information. As to how far along they have gotten or its time frame for availability isn't really known.

There are a number of builders who would probably be willing to sell you their videos since they have completed their Weekenders. I'm one if you are interested although I'm in Washington State and there should be a whole bunch on your side of the country.

White oak is a good choice for the keel. But regardless of the wood chosen, you want to pick the best material that you can obtain for a reasonable cost. Ideally you would choose clear, straight grain, quartersawn boards since they are not prone to warping or cupping as they go thru seasonal changes. There have been a considerable number of discussions about woods of choice for making these boats. A little searching will bring up a lot of discussions on them. Yes, you can scarf, biscuit join or otherwise glue up wider material from narrower boards and have a totally successful project. I would recommend that you join the edges before glueing it up first though so that there is good contact with them. Stagger the joints so that they dont' fall on top of each other when you glue the laminations together. It is being done more and more as the availability of wider stock is becoming more difficult to find at reasonable prices.

Southern Yellow Pine is also ok if you can find good lumber as is Doug Fir, mahogany and some other woods as well. For a good reference on woods suitable for boat building, you might want to go to www.glen-l.com and read the information on wood choices.

If you choose to use plain sawn lumber for your keel you are going to experience some less than positive results down the road. Regardless of how you assemble it, you will have some seperations as the material cups and warps. Cupping/warping of this lumber is inevitable. This can lead to moisture getting between the laminations and eventually this can cause rot pockets to form. For the same reasons you don't want to glass the keel, you need to be able to see when this seperation occurs and address it when it does. The glass will not keep it from happening, but will mask it when it does.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, there are no dumb ones other than the ones you don't ask until it is too late to do anything about it. There is a lot of good information available from those that have gone before you, just don't believe that there is only one good way to do it.

You'll get lots of varying opinions and viewpoints. They are almost all valid for their local and material availability. Just sort thru the information and decide which is going to work best for you. It is always your decision and your boat. And it will work out fine if you just have the patience and a good moaning chair. Just take your time, understand what steps you are going to take and how it all relates. Read ahead and understand what is going to happen next. As you go, you will find that the plans end up being a guideline ratherthan an absolute. Cut to fit once you get the sub assemblies together. Set up with a level place to work and level and square things up as you go, it will make everything fit so much better and easier as you go along.

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[PAR]

I seem to be chasing Barry all over the net tonight.

Check out the gallery here as well. The variations on Weekender will provide many ideas and even more questions.

Quarter sawn softwood is a better choice for this particular keel. It's cheaper, readily available, will shrink and swell less, weigh less and is easier to machine into deadwood pieces. I'd use the SYP rather then the more costly Douglas fur, which can be difficult to glue and doesn't finish very well (though it is under the LWL where few will bother looking). SYP is dense, rot resistant, fairly heavy, holds fasteners well and finishes nice. Cut around the nastiest of the knots and piece it together with well staggered butts and you'll be fine.

Some additional strength can be gained by length wise scarfs, but edge scarfs are a bit over kill and difficult to make. The scarfs aren't really necessary, unless you plan hard groundings and double reefed sailing a lot. Just stagger the butts good, between layers. I personally don't use biscuits, because they have no strength (none, zip, zilch) and alignment can be handled with temporary blocking, pipe clamps, drywall screws and a well placed foot as you screw things down.

[Paul A Gigl Jr]

I'm having difficulty finding any quarter sawn wood around here, I may end up having to use very narrow strips of plain sawn wood and alternate the grain orientation. I have found one place two hours from here that has clear, vertical grain fir but at $7.50 a foot they can keep it. Internetlumber.com has quarter sawn oak but I'm not comfortable buying it sight unseen. I've yet to find any SYP that I would be comfortable using, most of it is filled with large or loose knots.

I did find a couple of places that quarter sawn white oak flooring which might be an option worth investigating further. The tongue and groove would certainly make edge gluing a snap but I don't know how strong it would be. I may buy some samples to glue up and test.

If anyone no longer has a need for their weekender videos and would like to sell them I am certainly interested, feel free to send me an email.

Paul A Gigl Jr

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paul@GiglJR.com

[Guest Oyster]

I'm having difficulty finding any quarter sawn wood around here' date=' I may end up having to use very narrow strips of plain sawn wood and alternate the grain orientation. I have found one place two hours from here that has clear, vertical grain fir but at $7.50 a foot they can keep it. Internetlumber.com has quarter sawn oak but I'm not comfortable buying it sight unseen. I've yet to find any SYP that I would be comfortable using, most of it is filled with large or loose knots.

I did find a couple of places that quarter sawn white oak flooring which might be an option worth investigating further. The tongue and groove would certainly make edge gluing a snap but I don't know how strong it would be. I may buy some samples to glue up and test.

If anyone no longer has a need for their weekender videos and would like to sell them I am certainly interested, feel free to send me an email.

Paul A Gigl Jr

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paul@GiglJR.com[/quote']

Its fairly easy to "make quartersawn or rift cut lumber out of flat sawn by choosing wide boards. Look at the end of most flat sawn lumber, especially the 1x lumber. Rip the side pieces off of flat sawn and you have your quartersawn lumber. You can also sandwich some of the middle lumber between the quartersawn or rift cut and make use of the entire board.

[Frank Hagan]

The other thing to consider is that with a Weekender, you are usually building a boat that will "live" on the trailer most of the time. If that's the case, then the keel is probably the last place you have to worry about rot, provided you don't glass it and just leave it painted.

In my opinion, the quest for quarter sawn stock is nice, but not really necessary. If you can find some 1x12 lumber intended for outdoor stair treds, you'll be on the right track. Douglas fir is specified in the plans because it was plentiful and common ... used for framing houses ... in California. SYP, poplar, or any number of woods used in your local area for outdoor trim and things like stair treds will work.

You are laminating three pieces together, so you can alternate with crown in on the outside layers. Glue with epoxy and screw liberally with drywall screws, and once the epoxy sets for 48 hours or so, remove the screws. Fill the holes with epoxy and wood flour, and just paint the keel when you are done.

Once you build the boat, the only thing that will ever see the keel again is the trailer bunks, and the fishes.

The serious builders are gasping and clutching their hearts right now, and they're right ... cost is no object. But in the real world, you use the materials that make the most sense.

None of this applies if you plan to moor your Weekender in the water all the time.

[mrthethird]

Good lumber is difficult to find, especially in dimensional lumber. Most mills are far more "quantity-oriented" than "quality-oriented". Hand sorting through what's available is not only time consuming, but most lumber yards frown on it anymore. In our shop, we have to bring in 800-1000 bft of rough-cut lumber to get 300-400 feet of useable stuff. The rest is used for non-structural purposes (cleats, pallets, and firewood).

As much as I hate to be a voice of "ascention" here ( ), I built my Weekender last winter using #2 eastern white pine and ACX ply for the keel and hull. The boat is trailered, and suffers much change in temperature. Like Ray and Frank stated, I would not "recommend" these woods to other builders, but I have had no problems. Knowing the consequences of your decision helps to form a "contigency" plan when thing go awry...

So, use what you can find, find out how to use it right, and be ready for whatever happens. Pine will work fine for the keel, in my experience.

BTW, the price of ACX here has rocketed right past Aquatek, at least in the 5mm and 10mm sizes...might build my next dog house from marine ply for cost savings... :x