day sailer boat suggestions???

[pcuenin]

HI I am looking at building my first boat over the summer/fall and wondered if anyone had any suggestions. I am looking at the CS17 but I want to make sure that I can build it for under 2500 including tools needed. I am a soon to graduate college student and I do not have much money but I do have more then enough time to build. I plan on building the boat in a one car garage.

I am looking for a boat for my fiance and I to sail on lakes here in south carolina, and also on the carolina/georgia coast. I would like something quick, stable, and inexpensive. Do you think the CS17 sounds like a good fit? can you suggest something else? should I build a CS15, would that save that much money compared to the CS17?

Suggestions other then the CS17 are fine and more then welcome, I have been looking at many boat plan sites but I much rather get some boat builders opinions, and the selection of boats is a little over whelming for a newbie.

thanks

Paul

[ScottWidmier]

There are so many good designs out there it is hard to know where to begin with suggestions though the cs17 is a good one. The V bottom on the cs17 will make your build more complex over a simple flat-bottomed boat but the V bottom will handle chop better. A narrow boat like the cs will be quicker to heel but take less force (oar or sail) than a beamy boat. However, a beamy boat sails more flat (no heel) so how comfortable are you with sailing and how relaxed or excited do you want to be when sailing? Also, are you mainly looking for an open boat which has plenty of cockpit space for additional folks or do you want a cabin which gives storage for stuff on and off the water, someplace dry to get out of a sudden rainstorm or a secure place to overnight in.

Anyway, look at the Stevenson boats at www.stevproj.com which are flatbottomed and very easy to build, or another designer I have been happy with is www.bateau.com .

WARNING, BOATBUILDING IS ADDICTIVE!!!

[pcuenin]

scott thanks for the reply.

how comfortable are you with sailing and how relaxed or excited do you want to be when sailing?

Well I really have only been sailing the 420's we have at the sailing club here in clemson, I would like a boat that I do not have to hike out in but I do not mind heel to a certain degree. I would rather less heel then more. It seems to make my fiance a little nervous and I want this to be a boat both of us can enjoy.

Also, are you mainly looking for an open boat which has plenty of cockpit space for additional folks

Yes that is what I was thinking of, I would like something with camp onboard abilities but I was thinking a open boat would be a little easier to build then a cabin boat. I would like to be able to carry 4 full sized adults and sleep 2.

The boat I like on the bateau site is the CK17 http://www.boatplans-online.com/proddetail.php?prod=CK17....it seems similar to the core sound but less complicated to build. Is there any sort of beamy easy to build camp cruiser you could suggest?

thanks for the info

[Charlie Jones]

I would highly recommend the CS17 as the boat choice. Way ahead of the Stevenson designs in fact, although I have built both. The CS17 is a LOT of sailboat for it's size, with sailing capabilitiess far ahead of the others mentioned.

You would need nothing past a GOOD random orbit sander, a power jig saw and a circular saw to build the boat. Oh- and a power drill driver for sure. More tools would make things easier, but those four would do the job for you. Toss in a small router and some round over bits and you'd be good to go on power tools.

Note the emphasis on GOOD on that sander- it'll be the power tool you use the most, along with the drill driver. My ROS of choice is a Porter Cable 7335. It is capable of the heavy work and can handle the finer stuff also. Smaller sanders can bog down badly with the heavy sanding. Get GOOD one.

Oh and also- the next most used tool in my shop is the shop vacumn:D

HAND tools of course may be a different story

You would want at least a good block plane, and would do well with a bench plane added to that. Learn how to sharpen them. I mean REALLY sharpen them

Some rasps and a Surform block plane would assist nicely. That's the only currently made Surform that I use. My favorite Surform is no longer made and I hoard the remaining blades I have.

Then a couple of cabinet scrapers. Add any other tools as you find a need for them.

I don't think you'll go wrong building a CS17, by any means.

[P Doug (WA)]

might need a few clamps

[ScottWidmier]

There is a tradeoff between seaworthiness and ease of building. Of course, you need to ask yourself how often you really want to go out into high winds and waves. Otherwise, you just need a boat to get you in when the weather turns nasty. The CK17 with her flat bottom will be easier to build than the CS17 but the latter will be more comfortable in waves or chop than the former. The CS17 has such a nice V shape to the forefoot but this makes for a little more complex build.

Here are a couple of suggestions for boats with cabins starting with the most capable Adelie 14 ( http://www.boatplans-online.com/studyplans/AD14_study.htm ) and 16 ( http://www.boatplans-online.com/studyplans/AD16_study.htm ) form Bateau.com. The 14 is a bigger boat than the CS17 because of its beam and capacity. It is self-righting from a knockdown and has a self-draining cockpit of sufficent size for 4 adults. The cabin is cozy but sensibly arranged for a boat this size. Of course, safety and capacity comes at the price of a more complex build.

Another source of plans you should consider is Jim Michalak who designs a whole series of boats following the style of Bolger. His boats are probably the easiest to build of any designer but yet show some sophistication in hull shape and even in the use of water ballast for the larger boats. http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/plansindex/trailer_sailor_cruisers.cfm . For a beamy boat with cabin look at Fatcat. For a simpler build, take a look at the AF3. Michalak uses leeboards rather than centerboards or daggerboards primarily due to ease and shallow-water sailing capability. Don't have to cut a hole in the bottom of the boat or worry about making a waterproof well.

Whichever boat you build there are a couple of SE homebuilders that get together to sail our boats including a CS17. In fact, some of us are thinking about meeting an old friend from Ohio around the 26th to go sailing on Lake Hartwell. Most likely we will be all getting aboard Keith's Vacationer since my boats are all being worked on in the winter boatshed.

[Charlie Jones]

P Doug- :oops: :oops: Forgot all about clamps- you ALWAYS need more clamps.

Core Sound 20 inwales in the clamps

[pcuenin]

Okay well as of right now I think I am going to plan on the CS17.... from what you guys have said and that is seems to be the boat I want and meets all of my requirements.

in fact, some of us are thinking about meeting an old friend from Ohio around the 26th to go sailing on Lake Hartwell.

Oh man I wish I could join in but I am going to visiting my parents over Christmas and not going to be in the area. But I would definitely like to try and come to one of the get togethers.

Charlie thanks for the advice on tools... I am definitely not going to go cheap on those because I know how much having a bad tool can make a job hard.

Scott thanks for the input on the CS vs CK, based on what you said I think the CS could be a better choice.

I am sure you will see more of me, probably going to be planning and researching through the spring and start my build in May.

thanks

Paul

[ScottWidmier]

There are designs out there for clamps cut out of plywood that might help with things like putting on the rubrails as shown in Charlies pictures. Clamps are expensive!

[Charlie Jones]

Paul- also drop into the B and B board, attached to this one. Good group of folks. Also, Graham has a design for a really nice camping dodger for the 17. Removable too.

Scott- yeah but that isn't the rub rails- that's clamping the inwales and it took some pressure to get them bent in there. I also use a TON of the PVC pipe clamps. Man, what would we do without those?

[ScottWidmier]

Yikes!!! :shock: :shock:

[pcuenin]

well I bought the book "Devilin's boat building"

I plan on ordering the plans, researching, and building a scale model (1:12) of the CS17 in January/February. I figure it will be a good mini project and maybe a nice piece to put on the shelf while waiting to build, I plan on starting in May because of financial and time constraints.

If anyone has any suggestion on books to read for research please let me know. Thank for the info and I am sure I will be on the B&B board in the future.

thanks

Paul

[ScottWidmier]

That is what I meant by easier. The V bottom requires a stitch and glue method with a higher learning curve and one that can take longer than glue and screw. However, I believe stitch and glue is superior and have been using it on all of my boats be they flat or V bottomed. I think the chines are tougher and there is nothing that will rot or collect dirt.

Now, screw and glue with either chine logs or stringer will build a boat that you can have on the water the fastest. Use a glue like PL premium and some housepaint and you can build a boat in two days and have her on the water sailing by the third. Even less if you go with a simple design. I know because this is exactly what I did in building a puddle duck racer. I flew out to my parents house in Houston, built the boat in two days, cartoped it out to the PD racer world championship on Magnolia Beach, Tx, placed third, and then gave it to a father and son who came to the event. Of course, i built this PD racer with side airboxes and a foredeck. I also built all of the spars, daggerboard (and trunk), and rudder. I even built a paddle to go with it. Here is a sequence of photos that tells the story.

Now, there are a couple of boats out there that I think I could build even quicker. Of course, they won't last as long as the boats I build stitch and glue and glass the outside of. But, the materials can be purchased for $150 which is less than the cost of renting a boat for a day! One of the most satisfying experiences I have had with boatbuilding!

[Greg Luckett]

I read your original post. For under $2500 including tools, I would not try anything larger than a Spindrift 10 to 12 foot models. These are easy to build boats, the plan sets are good, many have built them here, and the designer is easy to reach for questions.

IMHO while the Stevenson boats look really cool, are easy to build, and have many good uses and fun times, they leave a lot to be desired too. I would only recommend them as a beginner project for someone who is going to build a better, more complicated design later. That being said, I may still build one just for the FUN of having one to play with. They are really cool looking boats and have many great folks building and playing with them. The mess abouts are a big attraction to me, even if I have yet to make it to one. By the time you build it and get a trailer, you will probably exceed $2500. Buying a good set of tools at garage sales will save you big bucks, but you could easily spend a grand on just tools. Sails cost too. I think I will shut up now before I talk myself into building that Vacationer I have the plan set for.

[pcuenin]

okay well I looked at the spindrift but I still wonder if it would meet my minimum requirements.

Do you think a spindrift 12 could be a dry sailer for two, and be able to carry 500lbs total weight? Would you have to hikeout in a spindrift? Anyone who has sailed one I would like to hear your thoughts.

If the spindrift could meet my minimal requirements, and be with in the low end of my budget then it could be a deffinite possibility. I know if I build the spindrift any camp on board ability would be gone but maybe starting small is not such a bad idea.

[ScottWidmier]

Another option to spindrift that would meet your needs and come in under the $2500 is the C12 by bateau.com ( http://www.boatplans-online.com/studyplans/C12_study.htm ). If you follow that link you will see the plans including a complete BOM. One of the reasons I built this boat is that it used the least amount of plywood of any other plans which really cuts down on costs. Yet, I can attest that it is a very solid and capable boat which has outsailed many a bigger boat thanks to a great hull shape. She is a catboat which means beamy for her length which translates into a wonderful carrying capacity for her length as well as stability allowing you to move around easily and ability to stand up to strong winds or gusts of winds. I have sailed on her with my family of four so she should accomodate your needs. She is V bottomed so able to handle the waves and you can hike out if you want.

Here I am on a very boisterous day:

my son sailing while I provide too much ballast forward .

My boat I rigged with a gaff so that I could have an unstayed shorter mast and she took to the new rig just fine. I know of another builder who is going gunther for more windward ability but still shorter mast. Basically, she is a flexible platform depending on your needs. Right not I am modifying mine by adding a deck and lowering the seats. Main reason is my wife won't let me build another boat and I gotta satisfy my itch so I am modifying a current boat! :wink: I plan on making a removable cabin trunk so I can convert her to a mini cruiser and a bimini for our hot summers. You can see what I am doing here: http://209.190.4.227/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12148

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[Charlie Jones]

Can a Spindrift 12 carry 500 pounds? Don't know, but I DO know that a Minipaw 6'6" dink can carry 400 plus

[ScottWidmier]

How many HP can that Minipaw take? Could it take 10hp? Love the picture!

[Charlie Jones]

rated for zero hp. I'd be afraid to put anything larger than a 1.5 on it. It's a pretty corky little boat.

Besides, then you'd have to register the thing-yuck

[ScottWidmier]

I have a cruise n carry and that could be real interesting! Understand about the registering thing. That is why I designed a boat for oar and sail with no accomodation for a motor.