Paint

[Marshall]

Hi,

My Weekender has the hull and sides clothed and 4 coats of epoxy resin. Since I am working alone, I want to paint the bottom and sides prior to turning it back over, so I won't have to turn it again.

I am having a hard time finding marine bottom paint in the color I want. Any suggestions on a good marine paint supplier ? Is marine paint a necessity ? or would a good epoxy paint work ?

Thanks for all the info

Marshall - "Anxious to get her in the water"

[capt jake]

Bottom paint is not neccessary, as the boat won't be in the water longer than a day or two (I would suspect). Bottom paint is sacraficial and will need to be re-applied every so often.

As for paint, you will get many suggestions here. I used and automotive urethane enamel. Others have great success with latex house paint. They are still other who swear by certain marine paints.

Bottom line is cost, ease of application, and the desired quality of finish desired upon completion.

Good luck.

[Dave R1]

Marshall, if you really want to spring for marine bottom paint check with Kirby's. If they don't have a color you want, they can make it.

Jake is right, though, unless you are planning to keep it in the water for very long periods of time, there's little need for it. I used Home Depot's finest exterior latex on Julie K. I haven't had any trouble with it at all and I can do touch ups that are invisible once the paint dries. I've heard that marine paints aren't so forgiving and that touch ups always show.

Before you paint make sure the epoxy has cured extremely well. Once the paint goes on it will seal anything in that would normally out gas. Very thin coats of paint are best. This is especially true with latex. If it is too thick it will skin over and the underside won't cure.

Good luck.

BTW, don't forget to send me some pictures of your boat. I'll post them here for you.

Dave

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

Marshall, we've used auto-urethane paint as well. It was sprayed on, so of course you'll need all the necessary equipment to boot, and a bit of experience unless you have a buddy you can invite to spray it for you. We are really happy with the paint and it seems very durable. We tried to scuff it in a couple of spots where we wanted to blend the white into the green. We used scotch-brite scouring pads... didn't even touch the paint, so we've had to switch to sandpaper...So I think rubbing against the docks won't be a problem. The finish came out almost showroom like and we've got a lot of compliments on it.

This was expensive... We paid slightly more than $700 for 2 gallons of paint and 2 gallons of non-sanding epoxy primer/sealer. This is not including the compressor, spray gun, hoses, respirators etc.

If one wants to go the more economical way, probably the rolled-on latex would be the way to go. Disclaimer: since we've never used the stuff on a boat I couldn't reccomend it. I've heard good and bad comments about it. My personal experience with outdoor latex isn't so good.... everyone I know who painted their porch/decks with the stuff had to re-do it two years later due to the stuff peeling off. I'm not sure if it would do the same on a boat.

Either way you decide to go, if you've used epoxy don't forget to was the amine blush before your final coats.

Good luck

Florin

[Frank Hagan]

Ditto what Jake said. I would add a couple of caveats (and all of these are based on the boat being a "trailer sailer", living most of her life and the trailer and then being in the water for no more than a few days at a time).

1) Use a high quality, exterior paint.

2) Make sure the paint is compatible with the epoxy if it is oil based.

3) Number of coats you apply depends on the type of paint.

Choosing a paint: If you read the label of any of the marine paints, none that I know of are rated for below the water lline (except for "bottom paint" which is usually "ablative" and/or contains chemicals to prevent marine growth, and comes in black, red and perhaps some other primary colors).

But on a trailer sailer you really aren't going to use a bottom paint. So you want to use a paint that meets whatever matters the most to you: durability, appearance, cost or ease of maintenance. Here's my take on your choices with ratings from one to four (four being the highest):

Latex water based exterior "house paint" or "deck/floor paint"

Durability: 1

Appearance: 1

Cost: 4

Ease of Maintenance: 4

Coats recommended: 1 only

Latex exterior paint is softer than oil based paints. It scratches off easily. It doesn't really have a high gloss shine, even if the can says it does. It takes two weeks or so to get to "final hardness" which is still pretty soft. Cost and ease of maintenance is excellent; a gallon runs $18 - $24, will do the whole boat with some left over for touchup. No need to do a scratch test, as water based paints adhere to epoxy without any problem. And one coat is sufficient (in fact, its recommended, as several of us had problems with multiple coats). I did Aslan in latex exterior "porch and deck paint" from Home Depot. I put on three coats, and had to wait forever for it to dry ... several weeks. Latex is so thick, you only need one coat.

Alkyd enamel exterior oil based "house paint" or "deck/floor paint"

Durability: 2

Appearance: 2

Cost: 3

Ease of Maintenance: 4

Coats recommended: 1 or 2

Alkyd enamels are oil-based paints that have a harder finish and have a higher gloss than latex water-based paints. Your boat won't look like its has new car paint on it, but it is a step above the latex finish. Its getting harder and harder to find in California because of environmental rules (VOCs), but the paint stores that sell to contractors will still carry it here. Because of that, the cost is somewhere around the $30 - $38 a gallon range. Because it is oil based, you do have to do a "scratch test" to make sure it will adhere to the epoxy. Maintenance is fairly simple; you'll have paint left over, and its still relatively cheap, so you can touch up at any time. You can apply a couple coats of this paint, but you really don't need to do more than two. One is usually sufficient.

Marine "topsides" enamels (Petit Easypoxy, Brightsides)

Durability: 3

Appearance: 3

Cost: 2

Ease of Maintenance: 4

Coats recommended: 1 or 2

These are much more expensive, but do have more "solids" in them to cover the areas better. They feature higher gloss, and about the same durability as a premium alkyd floor enamel (and better in my view than the lesser quality alkyd enamels). These are pretty expensive, at $28 per QUART. Coverage is good, so the Weekender can probably be done with 2 quarts. Like any oil based paint, do a scratch test first. One coat is usually sufficient, with touch up for some areas of non-coverage required if you decide on the crappy Brightsides brand.

Marine 2-Part Linear Polyurethane Paints - LPU (Interthane Plus, Awlgrip)

Durability: 4

Appearance: 4

Cost: 1

Ease of Maintenance: 2

Coats recommended: 1

If you want a super hard shell showroom finish and cost is no object, you can't go wrong with the 2-part linear polyurethane paints. They paint fiberglass yachts with this stuff, and they look brand new. Super durable too; its just hard to scratch through these coatings. They are pricey, though. One, to get the best finish, they should be sprayed. Because you WILL DIE if you spray them yourself, it must be done by a shop (they have to use special respirators, as the airborne paint particles will harden in your lungs the same way they harden on the boat and you WILL DIE). You can roll it on and then run a dry brush over it lightly in a technique called "rolling and tipping", which is safe enough, but the results are very much dependent on how well you master this technique. Expect to pay about $55 per QUART, and I think you'll need two for a Weekender. Plus whatever the shop charges to paint it for you. They do recommend an epoxy primer undercoat (another $50 per QUART item).

Remember, these are my opinions, and I may be wrong on some of the facts. Whatever paint you decide to use, its a good idea to do a "scratch test" first.

Frank's infamous scratch test (borrowed from System Three Epoxy)

Once the epoxy is cured (48 hours minimum), washed with a green "scrubbie" pad to remove any amines on the surface, then lightly sanded and washed again and dried, go get your paint. If its an alkyd enamel from a paint store, have them shake it for you. Open the can of paint carefully, with the idea that you may have to return it, and mix it carefully if recommended on the label. Paint a small patch of it on the hull, about 4" square, put the can lid back on and wait until the paint fully cures. (If the paint recommends a primer, put that on first, then the topcoat, following their directions).

Once the paint is cured, take a metal straight-edge and make a series of light cuts through the paint with an Exacto knife or razor blade about 1/8" apart. Make another series of cuts at 90

[Marshall]

Wow Thanks everyone !

I didn't want to say it but $130 a gallon for marine paint seemed to be a lot ! ! ! !

I will be a trailor sailor so exterior latex it is

My brother in law works with fiberglass and epoxy resins on cars and said to let the final coat cure for 2-3 days. Is that enough ?

You guys are really great with all the help I have had here. I read this daily for any tips on my project.

Marshall

[Charlie Jones]

I have to make a confession here. The Pettit Easy Poxy we used on the bottom of the dink was great - last year. THIS year, we took the boat to our cruise over in Pensacola (TSBB BEER cruise) and when we pulled it out of the water after having used it for 5 days, the paint was coming off the bottom in huge patches- just softening and peeling off.

So I don't know. The epoxy was definitely cured since the dinghy had been used on four cruises prior to that during 2002 and 2003. The paint did fine then. Why it came off now I have no idea.

[Craig]

I used Valspar exterior latex on the Saralee. The blue on the hull is fine after four years. The top sides were painted with the same brand in a white. It marred up pretty bad where ever a shroud wire touched it. I repainted the second year and apparently rushed the second coat as it came out soft as butter. Everything that touched it stained. Especially suntan oil. Next time I am going to try Rustolium. Someone saidl they had real good luck using that. It coverwd well and dried hard ar nails. I painted the patio furnature 6 years ago with black and just repainted it this year. I sits all year in the sun down here in all kinds of weather.

[Frank Hagan]

So I don't know. The epoxy was definitely cured since the dinghy had been used on four cruises prior to that during 2002 and 2003. The paint did fine then. Why it came off now I have no idea.

Because, you made a public recommendation for it!

[Frank Hagan]

I will be a trailor sailor so exterior latex it is

My brother in law works with fiberglass and epoxy resins on cars and said to let the final coat cure for 2-3 days. Is that enough ?

No! If you splash the boat 3 days after you paint with latex you could have it come off in huge sheets!

If you do use latex, and put the boat in the water for a few minutes and the color suddenly looks faded, it is not cured hard yet. Get it out of the water and wait some more.

The paint your brother in law is using on cars is probably an oil based spray on paint, probaby a polyurethane or a lacquer. It will dry and harden over a few days to a very hard shell. His experience is not applicable to using latex in this particular instance.

The key to using latex is patience. Use only one coat and let it cure until you can no longer dent it with a thumbnail. You'll be surprised how long that takes. Then wait two weeks. All told, I had to wait 6 weeks or something like that, but I complicated matters by using three coats (including a water based primer, which was unnecessary).

If time is an issue, go one step up to a quality alkyd enamel (oil based) from Lowes or Home Depot. The deck and porch paints are usually the toughest. The oil based paint cures by the solvents gassing off, which happens faster than the water evaporating away in the latex paints.

As an aside, has anyone here heard of using an ounce or two of MEK in latex paint to make it harder? Wondering if that works.

[Marshall]

Frank,

Thanks for the great input. I am weeks away from launching, so the paint will have plenty of time to cure.

I was referring to the fiberglass epoxy resin - how long should I wait before I paint over that ?

You have incredible knowledge in every phase of this boat building. I have used your info with the "pros" I work with and they always agree that your advice is solid.

Thanks for all the info you have given me

Marshall

[Tidmarsh]

Wow Thanks everyone !

I will be a trailor sailor so exterior latex it is

Marshall

On a recommendation from someone on another mailing list, I used Benjamin Moore M29 DTM (direct to metal) industrial latex paint on my boat (~$28/gallon). It's only been on for a little over 6 months now, so I can't comment on longevity. It's done well in terms of durability, however. After a week at the beach, dragging the boat on and off the sand a couple of times a day, the paint shows hardly any wear.

Frank's right--give latex plenty of time to dry. Here in the Alabama humidity, it took a month before the paint stopped changing colors when splashed with water.

[Frank Hagan]

Frank' date='

Thanks for the great input. I am weeks away from launching, so the paint will have plenty of time to cure.

I was referring to the fiberglass epoxy resin - how long should I wait before I paint over that ?

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See how excited I get over this stuff? I completely missed that you were talking about letting the resin cure!

I would agree that 2 or 3 days is probably OK. The thumbnail dent test is a good one for this too. You just want to make sure the epoxy doesn't feel gummy or anything like that.

You sometimes get a wax-like coating on the epoxy (amine blush) that will interfere with paint adhesion. I never really got it, but I washed the hull with a green scrubbie pad and clear water anyway, then lightly sanded. When using latex, you want to have some "tooth" on the surface for the paint to grab onto.