Wood for Spars -Mast???

[Ken]

All,

I'd like to get your input on a recommendation from our local lumberyard that strongly recommended that I find clear 'yellow cedar' for the mast and all the spars. His rationale was that it was light, strong, and stringy in nature so that if one ever did bust the mast it would crack but not crack off and leave you hanging. I sized up locally the douglas fir and found it to be quite a bit heavier than the spruce. However I cannot locate any clear spruce so........yellow cedar???

Note: Because of the design of the mastbox that I have inherited, I think will find it just as easy to laminate two 2x4's as opposed to planing down a 4x4 . Has anyone else done this ???

Input sure appreciated

[Dave R1]

I don't know what to tell you about the yellow cedar. If you can get clear pieces long enough to make the mast, I'd say give it a go. As to the base and the mastbox, I made my mastbox according to the plans and except for a little sanding so I could paint it, a cedar 4x4 worked perfectly. (don't know what sort of cedar it was. Just what HD had.)

Are you planning to just glue up a couple of 2x4s for the length of the mast? If so, I'd consider making a hollow mast. A hollow square one would be rather easy to do or you could do a birdsmouth mast which would also be fairly straightforward.

[Frank Hagan]

You can laminate two 2 x 4 to make the mast. Have the seam running fore and aft, so that looking from the side of the boat you can't see the seam. Epoxy the two together (or use Weldwood plastic resin glue), and the mast will be plenty strong enough for the Weekender's sail plan!

[Barry Pyeatt]

There are a lot of wooden boats larger than this that use "Yellow" Cedar for spars. It is a wood that has been used in boat building here in the Northwest for a long time. It should hold up just fine. My bowsprit is Yellow Cedar.

[Ken]

Thanks to all of you for your input - but can anyone tell me why Capt. Jake hasn't weighed in on the subject? (Maybe he's not at work :wink: ) A special thanks to Barry too, for both of his replys. A special thanks to Barry too, for both of his replys.

Gracias, Ken

[BobSmalser]

Alaska Yellow Cedar is almost as heavy as DF and much more expensive...SG of .44 to .48 for DF (WRC is .32 in comparison).

Strengthwise, both Alaska Yellow and Port Orford approach the strength of DF...Impact Failure of 29 and 28 feet as opposed to 31 (WRC is only 17, in comparison).

Here's more on the topic:

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=002232

http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=004031&p=

Both are fine...I read comments that AYC is too brittle, but that doesn't jive with the USDA test data....but my choice for the money would be clear DF heartwood of better than 8 rings to the inch.

Mast Grade Sitka...the ideal...is 8 bucks a BF here. The same quality DF can be had anywhere from 80 cents to insiders all the way to 4 bucks retail.

[Dave Fleming]

If you are in Lynden why not take a nice ride to Anacortes and visit Flounder Bay Lumber? Been serving the boat building community for many years now. They will have boat quality lumber in all three woods ie:

AYC, DF, SS and chances are some POC too.

I don't know which boat you are building but the choice of wood for masts and spars should be specified by the designer with a bit of leeway for second and third choices.

In spars it is not just the weight to be considered but the strengh and resilency of the particular wood are other important factors.

Having used all 4 of the woods mentioned above in many places on vessels I would earnestly recommend you do some research on the pluses and minuses of each if the designer did not specify a particular wood for mast and spars.

For example: the scantlings for a deck beam in DF were increased by abut 25% when AYC was substituted in the construction of a 54 foot schooner.

[capt jake]

As far as a location to buy, my vote would be with Edensaw Lumber in PT. I found them quite knowledgable, friendly and very reasonable in price. They stock Fir, Spruce, etc...

There is also Building Material Outlet in Bremerton an Puyalup. Their stock changes very frequently, so it may pay to call them to see if they have what you want.

My mast is CVG Fir, very expensive. I bought it local (or should say got rippes locally). At almost $9.20/bf. :shock:

Didn't weigh in earlier, as I haven't been by the computer (at home) for more than a few minutes a day in the past several weeks.

[Reno]

Hi Ken:

Don't know if this will work for you or not, but I've managed to be able to find very good hardwood in various lengths and widths at the local lumber yard's scrap bin. While searching for some wood to build a strip canoe I came across a hardwood distributor that gets their wood in rough-cut form. They then have to shore it up and plane it before selling at their premium prices to customers. In the process, they end up with a large amount of scraps and plenty of sawdust that's free for the taking. In fact, the owner of the yard I go to told me I'm doing him a favor since he has to pay by the pound to have it removed as trash. Since the canoe only required strips that were 1/4 inch thick by 3/4 in wide, ripping them down on a tablesaw was relatively easy. In fact, I managed to sometimes rip 3 or 4 strips from the same scrap. The plans called for cedar but my canoe was built with white oak, hard maple, mahogany and walnut. All free and beautiful wood once I got through working it. I don't help myself to the sawdust they have because there's usually different varieties of wood mixed in. Instead, I save my own while working with each variety of wood and mix it with epoxy for filler. There's a big difference between the colors of maple and walnut and having the right color dust makes a big difference when patching. Whatever wood I don't end up using for constructing purposes can end up in the garden as a tomato stake or in the wood stove as kindling. Friends really think I've gone bonkers when they see me using pieces of walnut for kindling, but what the heck, it's free.

I'm now building a vacationer and manage to go scrounging around at the wood pile at least once a week. Whatever I find that's useable I take home and save. A few weeks ago the supplier received a large shipment of mahogany stacked on mahogany pallets. There were a few strips in the scrap pile from the mill, but I really felt like I hit the jackpot when they threw out the mahogany pallets. There were at least 8 rough-cut 1x4x16ft and six 4x4x3ft. Those will come in handy.

Anyway, the reason I'm telling you all this is you might be able to find such a supplier in your area who's interested in a similar win-win situation. Over the past few months I've saved various pieces of quality wood that can be ripped and cut "birds mouth" style to make a mast, boom, etc. Even though hard wood tends to be heavier, the birds mouth style is hollow and relatively light.

Happy hunting!

[Ken]

Thanks to you all, Jake, Dave and Bob for your advice - I will contact Flounder Bay and see what they have. Sure appreciate this board and also everyone's willingness to help and advise.

On an update note - I flipped my boat on Friday and cleaned and masked off for the painting of the bottom and bottomsides on Sat. On Sunday afternoon I put on the first coat of paint - a good feeling of progress as I have been spending a lot of time the past couple weeks sanding and prepping the boat for this event ( I think my sanding obsession is called "Capt. Jakes Condition", right? )

Thanks all... again,

Ken

[capt jake]

"Capt. Jakes Condition",

Uuuhhh.... that is affermative!! You don't really want this bug, but it does produce smoother surfaces.

You must cure the epoxy in the sun prior to the final steps. Epoxy shrinkage with telegragh the weave through. It is a bumer that I learned that too late!! :shock:

Right now I have an obsession with dirt and tractors. I am filthy dirty after moving and leveling my meager 12X10 barn to a new location. Got rid of a lot of other 'stuff' (aka crap)and the yard is looking rather large!

[Ken]

Jake,

You get sun down south where you are???? I won't be able to do that up here till sometime in late summer

Seriously though - my epoxied surface is about 5-6 weeks cured - getting it in the sun will shrink it at this point? If not sun, then what?

Sounds like you have just way too much fun every day(and no kids afoot to take up that spare time)!!!

[capt jake]

Sun is easy and fast (just don't leave it in the sun too long!). Other than that, heat. I can't remeber the actual temp that is required, but more than you can heat you garage to anyway!.

It is amazing how fast it will shrink in the sun in as little as 45 minutes. I had both teh kayak and th Weekender done for over 5 months before they saw sunshine (thought all was cured as far as it would go). the both show minor print through after the short time mentioned.

epoxy is amazing stuff!

[ginotworivers]

My mast is 2x2 douglas fir laminated, using resourcnal glue. It was built in 1960 and this last year the glue seams finally came undone, the mast broke along the glue lines, took them apart and used eposy to refasten it, wrapped two areas and its all together working fine.

My first choice would be spruce which u can get from wood providers in back of Wooden Boats, second choice would be yellow ceder,third choice because of weight would be douglas fir. :roll:

[BobSmalser]

Here's more on sailboat mast species from the sawyers and foresters forums:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Sailboat_masts.html

And as much as I like resorcinol, Doug Fir isn't the easiest wood to either glue or paint because it has a bit of seasonal movement and a good bit of resin....use epoxy, which is more flexible and will likely last longer.