How many stays really?

[ROBBO]

I am about to set up my rig, the plans show two side stays. I wounder are they both necessary. If so is it for structural reasons, or are they prescribes for visual reasons. If not confirm that just having the rearmost pair would be quite sufficient for my mast to stay put. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Having limited time in a Weekender but under some pretty good stress conditions I can see where I wouldn't want to eliminate the forward stays. That Gaff is a pretty big sail and the stress load on the stays under a good blow is pretty good. They have a distinctly higher twang to them when plucked under load.

Remember they are only attached to small chainplates thru bolted to 1/4" ply. My sense is that if you were to eliminate the front two, you would need to really beef up the rear ones as well as the chainplates and the mounting for them. Even then I think the stress loads under sail in a broad reach with a good wind would unfavorably load the stays and forestay.

The Stevensons have played with the rig on this boat thru a lot of variations to arrive at what works. Don't think I would change that. But then it is your boat and you are building it as you please for what pleases you. Lets see what some of the others have to say.

[Charlie Jones]

They are necessary. Don't leave home without one. They were designed that way for a reason.

The rear ones act somewhat as a backstay when sailing down wind- that's the reason for the drift aft. The forward ones offset the downward pressure of the mainsheet ON the wind, along with the headstay.

Besides that - rigging with just one would complicate things at the mast head- you'd need tangs rather than what the design calls for.

[Ed Jones]

This is a very interesting topic. I have noticed that my PC plans call for single stays instead of the double stays. Someone I thank has no stays at all just a beefed up mast on his PC. I am thanking of adding another set of stays to my PC just for safety. Will an extra set of stays be necessary or just a waste of time and material? :?

[MikeStevenson]

The Pocket Cruiser has a wider base to support the mast and the loads on the single stays are acceptable. You could certainly add a second stay for looks and as a safety measure. It wouldn't hurt anything but the angle that you could let the boom out on downwind runs.

I would run the two sets of stays on the Weekender. I seem to recall that builders who've tried only the one set have had problems.

Mike

[Bill Paxton]

There's really only one way to be sure if a single stay will work: try it. If it breaks and the mast falls down, then you'll know. Of course that will happen when you are least able to deal with it - in high winds and severe chop.

Why put yourself through it? Go with the two stays and enjoy sailing your beautiful Weekender, confident in the fact that she will hold together and protect you and your loved ones.

[Mike Kelley]

This is hard for me to admit but I was to lazy to build a weekender, so I bought one already to go(now will you elect me president?) anyhoo, the boat has only one side-stay, and several outings in different kinds of weather,without any bad experiences YET. the builder said he thought it was overkill with two but I may add another one later. The boat creaks like an old ship when I change tack, once you tighten down the turnbuckles the mast seems pretty solid. I might also mention that this is a cabinless weekender,much easier to solo,lots of room, and also maintains a low center of gravity.

Mike

[Bill Paxton]

Mike, there aren't many cabinless Weekenders around. Are there any pictures on the web? Who was the original builder? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Mike Kelley]

Hey Bill, I always wanted a cabinless weekender,I even bought plans and started collecting material to build when a gentelman advertized a cabinless model on this forum, I snached it up fast! It was in PA. and I am in AZ. expensive trip to pick up but the boat is everything I was going to build,I will post Pictures tomorrow. Like I said I'm ashamed that I didnt build it, but that goes away when I take her to the lake!!

Mike

[Knut]

Hi, I am still around, with the option of throwing in a posting once and a while.

In my opinion there is only one valid argument for double shrouds on a Weekender: Back-up! If one fails for any reason, the other will prevent loosing the rig. For single shrouds to work safely, the chain-plate anchoring must be looked into and I would use real SS wire and not the plastic covered Home Depot stuff.

The arguments about a large mainsail and resulting large forces on the rig (being an argument for double shrouds) I tend to disagree with. The reality of sailing a Weekender is that the maximum forces will be limited by what the boat can take before flipping. In hard wind you have to reef and/or you must spill part of the wind by letting out on the sheet. The force it takes to knock the boat over (and the resulting tension in the shroud) is peanuts compared to what a single wire can sustain with good margin.

[MikeStevenson]

One of the considerations of having two sets of stays is the ability to set your shroud/stay tension loose (as we designed ours to run.) Get the forestay set to the length which will set the proper rake, then tighten the backstay/shrouds just tight, not really tight. All you want is to keep the mast straight when you're on a tack. The lee shrouds may go slightly slack; this is OK.

When you set the boat up this way, you're putting lighter loads on the mast hinge, etc. than when you pull everything up too tight.

Mike

[buck]

Hi Robbo,

I'd agree with these posts, I've been well reassured by the twin stays on my boat, especially in strong winds. What are you using? I was able to find some old stainless steel stays off another boat, failing that I'd go for single strand stainless steel wire, this is a cheap alternative and just as effective. Galvanised wire would be my last option.

I loved your pictures on waynes web site, looks like the boat is coming on nicely. Soon we'll have 3 boats! Won't that be good!

[waynemunro]

I wonder when there is the peak loading on the stays.

The first think I thought is that it will be when sailing across the wind in a gale, with three of four crew sitting up on the edge of the boat (insert appropriatte sailing terminology), even then I wouldn't expect the loads to be all that high, just needs to be enough to conteract the righting moment from that weight, plus whatever it takes to tip the boat over to the heel angle (not all that much force on an unballasted boat). Then I was thinking that there might be another crittical point when catching an accidental jibe in a strong winf, the boom whips through, the mainsheet is out, and its only the boom hitting the stays which stops its progress.. I reckon that might put a fair strain on the system. I think if I was holding a large stick and wanted to break the attachment of the stay to the weekender I'd have more luck hitting the tightened stay sideways than by hitting the top of the mast sideways

jsut thinking aloud however.. I should state that I like the two stays for purely aesthetic reasons.

[ROBBO]

Hi Buck, I hope all is well down your way (do you fancy the highlanders chances this season?) I have decided to stick with conventional wisdom and go with the pair of shrouds. I an going to use 3mm stainless that I can get reasonably cheaply from a supplier here in Christchurch. All is progressing well and i too am looking forward to adding my contribution to the Kiwi fleet.