Looking for advice on a reliable light-weight motor for my CS20 #65

[JeffM]

Not sailed since before Covid, but getting Beatrice Ann back into the water with her new rig this year.  I'd always sailed engineless -- not as purist, but just cheapskate.  Being a lousy sailor, I've often gotten into kinds of trouble that I'm getting too old to get out of reliably anymore.  So I'm counting on a motor to help out.  I am no mechanic, so decided to go new.  (I briefly owned an antique 5hp that would only start when I didn't need it too badly.   I specify light-weight because my Core Sound's stern gets depressed easily.  (Therapy hasn't helped.)  Cheaper is of course better, as long as motor is reliable, but I do think neutral would be nice to have.  I don't know how many horses I need, but surely no more than 4.

 

Suggestions and experiences welcome!

[Reacher]

Jeff, I have a dependable 40 year old Suzuki 2-cycle 2hp on my CS 20. It is mounted in a cutout on the transom. It works well enough that I haven’t thought of replacing it. The power is fine for motoring in and out of the marina. And it is as light as they come. I’ve always loved a two cycle for weight to power ratio.

 

Things that I would look for in buying new, in order of importance: 1) a long shaft. I need to keep the crew behind the thwart to keep the prop down. More than half throttle also produces cavitation, as do waves that lift the transom. 2) A neutral gear. Getting away from the dock takes coordinating dock lines with the starter cord. Doable, but it would be nice to have the motor idling before castoff. 3) Maybe one more hp.
 

Also, I’d look at an electric option that had an integral battery for quiet operation and not mixing small volumes of gas/oil.

 

 

[Jonathan M. Cohn]

I really like my Epropulsion Spirit with its single removable battery. Its perfect for using to get in and out of a dock or handling in a pinch. Its not as good for all day cruising. Its not cheap. I had a Tohatsu 3 HP outboard before this and the carburetor clogged all the time. If it wasn't clogged it started easy. It was about 20 years old and a two stroke.

[AmosSwogger]

I have pushed my 20.3 up narrow channels against strong headwinds with a 2.5 HP 4 stroke Suzuki.  Works well for my boat.  No reverse though.

 

I have also used the motor to push through squalls successfully.   Great motor, very lightweight for a 4 stroke.

[Paul356]

I have the 2.5 4-stroke Suzi, aka Ms. Q.    It has been more than reliable, once I figured out a couple quirks.  It offers reverse if you sping it around backwards, which I often do.  You just need to figure that out when mounting it.  Let me know if you want the lowdown on theg quirks. It comes in a long-shaft now, 20", which I wish I had and may be helpful for mounting.  I see it online for $700 to $800.

[JeffM]

Thanks, Reacher!  Power to weight is nice, but two strokes are dirty, and I think not legal anymore here.  Long shaft for sure! 

 

Jonathan, cost and range are the reasons I wouldn't go electric.  I'm typically out for several days at a time.  Nice and clean, though!  

 

Amos & Paul, it's nice to get up-votes on the Suzuki 2.5.  Great to here it has power enough for a CS20.  (Mine is likely on the heavy side with more wind resistance, since I added a high trunk cabin to my mark 1, though.)  I think I can live with spinning the motor for reverse as long as I can idle.  Paul, I do indeed want to know any quirks!  I'm going to have to study to learn how to use and maintain it.

 

Thanks, all!

[Mike Vacanti]

I also have a Suzuki DF2.5 long shaft on my CS17 mk1. I only have about 7 hours on it and it has been reliable so far. Paul, could you share the quirks that you mentioned? I am seeing it idle too fast when in neutral.

[Andy B]

14 hours ago, JeffM said:

Amos & Paul, it's nice to get up-votes on the Suzuki 2.5.  Great to here it has power enough for a CS20.  (Mine is likely on the heavy side with more wind resistance, since I added a high trunk cabin to my mark 1, though.)  

 

Jeff, are you able to share any pictures of your "high trunk cabin"?  I'd love to see them.

[JeffM]

Just grabbed a couple of shots I took while test-fitting my most bizarre addition ever: a companion shelter that will allow me, at anchor, to sit upright inside even in the rain.  It folds up and rests uneasily on the forward seat when not in use. 

 

But you can see the cabin pretty well.  The main hatch slides, while the fore hatch drops into place.  The forward window comes out of its slot so that I can more easily access the foredeck through the cabin.  In practice, though, I nearly always go forward on the side deck, holding on the the edge of the main hatchway.  Lack of headroom is tied with another big problem with my cabin: when I sleep on the starboard side (the footwell on that side is filled with an insert), my knees are trapped under the edge of the forward coaming.  This makes it impossible to roll over, for instance, without fully waking up.  I just realized that I could lay diagonally (across the CB trunk)  more easily, and I'll be trying that out probably in a May trip.

 

Unfortunately, the Mark III came out well after I built, or I'd have a much more elegant boat!

[Andy B]

@JeffM, I like it!  I have CS-20 number 36 (bought a few years ago).  I will probably go the route of a fabric tent, but a place that's always dry is tempting.

[Paul356]

Quirks of the Suzi, in no particular order:

--Do not overfill the oil.  Go up to the line in the glass when the motor is vertical, no more.  Othewise you risk oil in the cylinder, which results in hydrolock, which is a mess.  You pull the cord and the engine won't spin, or if you pull really hard, you break the cord or the conrod. The only way to fix it is to take off the cowl, take out the sparkplug, stand back, pull the plug and watch the oil fly sevdral feet out of the cylinder.  And then hope you can get the plug and cylinder clean.

--Run the motor dry after each use, if you remember.  Let it idle, but turn off the gas until the engine stops.  This isn't so important if you're going back out the same day or the next day.

--Whether you remember to run it dry or not, once you're through for the trip, before you take the motor off the transom, reach inside the hole on the motor on the lower right side with a long phillips screwdriver and loosen the screw there, which will drain the gas from the carb.  If you've run it dry, a little gas will flow out and fill the paper towel or rag you're holding under the cowling toward the bottom front.  If you forgot to run it dry, a lot of gas will run out and fill the two or three towels you're holding. Tighten the screw back up before you walk away.

--Do not believe the sign on the side of the motor that says, "Store this side up."  You'll get hydrolock (or at least I did.)  Transport it "face down," by which I mean carry it in the car or boat with the front of the motor (where the pull cord comes out) down.  I swivel the transom bracket to one side or the other and it stays upright pretty easily balanced on that, maybe propped up with some gear.

--When you go to start it, just pull out the choke knob but don't worry about fussing to get the twist throttle to "start."  Just leave the throttle all the way in the closed position.  The choke knob automatically opens the throttle the right amount.  Check this visually by taking off the cowl and pulling the choke knob, just to be sure you see the throttle lever moving a tad.  This takes the guesswork out of trying to find the "start" position.

--As soon as you put the motor on your transom (or as soon as you get to the ramp, if you're trailering with the motor mounted), open the fuel lever and the fuel cap vent, to let the gas start filtering down into the carb.  This will sort of prime it for an easy start when you get around to starting.

--But in colder weather, or if it's otherwise not starting right away, "apply positive pressure to the fuel system."  That is, unscrew the fuel cap, put your mouth in the big hole, and blow in there.  It really works.  Thanks to Alan from B&B for that tip.

--I use non-ethanol gas if I can find it, but 10% ethanol with the Sta-Bil outboard motor product added per spec seems to work just as well.  I have not had any issues in years of service.

I think that's it!

--pb

[JeffM]

Priceless information, Paul, thank you!

 

for comparison, about how fast would that motor push your CS20 in fairly calm conditions?  Are you using the prop that came with the motor?  (I'm wondering about prop pitch for motors designed for the high speeds of planing boats as compared to the few Kts we want.)  

 

Thanks, Andy!   I went through half-a-dozen attempts at a shelter before i build the permanent hardtop.  It's a wet boat, so blocking spray while underway makes it a nicer ride and keeps gear dry.  But getting to the foredeck around a cloth tent or dodger -- with nothing solid to hold on to -- proved too risky.  (I nearly always go out at least overnight, so anchoring is important.)  My last attempt before the real cabin was a sort of popup cabin that had a ply roof and cloth sides.  It worked pretty well but took forever to set up at the ramp.  The current cabin was as high as I could make it and still have the foot of the main and end of the sprit clear.  It's high enough that I (at 6'2") can just see over it from the cushioned seat.  (This is with my original sleeved sail rig, which I've just replaced with the common track sails.)

[Paul356]

Mine is the CS 17 MkI.  Cranked up with no particular wind and wave, I get close to 7 mph with a boatload of gear, I think.  I seldom find I need to travel that fast.  I was able to make fine headway and maybe 5 mph into a 20+ mph headwind and 2-foot or so waves on Rainy Lake a couple years back when sailing didn't seem like such a great idea.  I use the little prop that came with it.

 

While you're discussing shelters:  I bent some bows I got from SailRite into a dodger shape and took the canvas to a shop for a dodger that pulls up and fastens in less than 30 seconds.  Then I went back to the shop a couple years later and got a tent that fastens to the back of the dodger and makes a complete enclosure.  I didn't try to cover the back of the cockpit.  I have a sleeping platform to keep me up out of the bilge, and I can just pump out the water when the need arises if it rains in the cockpit.  The picture attached is from the canvas shop parking lot, using stub mast instead of mizzen.  It works great.  I just fold the whole thing up forward with the dodger when I'm out sailing and unfold it to camp.

 

[JeffM]

Paul, that's beautiful.  Very nice job on the build.  Looks like full sitting headroom under dodger.  The dodger is very high: it doesn't interfere with the main?

 

It's hard to believe the speeds you're getting out of that little motor.  I'm definitely buying a Suzu 2.5 long shaft.  (I don't know the model, but I'll find out.)  I'd be delighted with half your speeds in salt water with a bigger, heavier boat.

[Paul356]

Thanks.  Yep, sitting headroom under the dodger and tent.  I can sail with the dodger up, also with the main reefed.  It might drag a hair, but not enough to cause a problem.

[JeffM]

New question for all the Susuki 2.5-ers out there.

 

The current motor mount on my CS20 is positioned for a short shaft motor (15").  I either need to move the mount to buy a long shaft, or make sure a short shaft motor will fit. 

 

I'm lazy, and the mod would not be inconsequential.  Also, I might consider using the motor on a smaller boat as well. 

 

If I bought a short shaft, I can imagine I would have to keep the tiller about straight up (since the three legs of the mount hold it only 7" off the transom).  I don't recall having a problem with this with antique I once had.  I also don't recall having trouble tipping the old motor out of the water, but that would be an important factor if there wasn't room to raise the Suzu without hitting the transom.  

 

Anyone else have issues like these?