Rehabbing Old Tools

[BobSmalser]

Here's a preview of two articles I'll write soon...one on plane rehabs without fancy tools...and one on the same with those two old framing chisels in the pic below.

Note the two smoothers in the bottom pic...a 3 and a 4...each set for a different depth of cut...both looked worse than the 19-dollar Stanley 5 Type 16 above I'm doing the article on.

[Simon]

I have a keen interest in restoring old handtools, we have a marvelous flea market nearby that runs every Sunday. My most recent success was with an old handsaw, although it was a near thing. I brought the saw home and used a car battery charger and some Sodiium Hydroxide to clean it up using a process of eloctrolyis - it came up very well and I could see the manufacturers stamp on it. I'll provide more detail on this process if anyone is interested.

The saw teeth were all uneven, with some broken. After the saw was cleaned up I clamped it between two lengths of wood, with the lowest tooth even with the wood. I dressed the saw with my handheld belt sander. This was very effective and I ended up with an even edge on the saw .... but this was where the problems started. I wanted to cut the saw as a rip saw, it had previously been a cross cut saw, but the teeth spacing was right for a rip saw. I started to file the teeth, but found that with the rather radical dressing that I had given it, I could no longer index the teeth effectively. I was having a lot of problems knowing how deep to cut each tooth, and where to make the file cuts.

I couldn't solve this problem very easily, so I took the saw to a saw doctor. For $AU25 he cut some perfect ripping teeth on it and I couldn't be happier. I'm sure I can resharpen the teeth now I know where they are (It won't let it get that bad again ... ) but to fully recut the teeth I couldn't see any alternative. I think the saw doctor did it with an indexed grnding machine, probably took him 5 minutes. I wander if there is a way I could have done it?

As an endnote, I will also mention that several saw doctors I spoke to wouldn't take the job on and urged me to buy a brand new 'hard point' (unmaintainable) saw for a similar (or lesser) price. I finally convinced one by saying that it was my father's saw and a priceless family heirloom (which it is now ). There's scant appreciation for old tools it seems, because his response was that I should just hang it on the wall as is ... but by then I'd dressed it and it didn' t look very nice anymore .... and anyway I want to use this baby.

Long story short I payed a total of $AU35 for a saw that I couldn't be happier with, and will see me through this life time and perhaps a few more generations ...

Sorry for getting slightly OT, I have somethings to say about handplanes too, but I better let the thread develop a bit more first ....

[Bill]

Bob, It will be nice to read the articles..where will they be available?

Simon, hey guy, no need for the thread to develop, chime right in about the planes, I have an interest too.

I am not a collector of old tools and I know little to nothing about restoring them. I own a couple of old planes and just picked up a small level (bout 18 inches).. I would like to know how to restore them and make them a bit more useable. No need on letting them sit on the shelf collecting dust..tools need to be used. We have a few old tool dealers here in Maine that I occasionally stop in at, just to look (and occasionally purchase). Each time I wander amongst the tools I get this weird feeling about how they were used, and by whom, to do what. I don't want to make a big hobby out of fixing them up, but if I can gain more knowledge about what I'm looking at, and if it's salvageable, seviceable and useful to me..i'd probably buy it. I think that most old tools, refurbished, are probably far superior to some of that junk we invest in at the big store(s)..that get us by, for the time being...that said, most of the crap I have bought, has busted after the first of second big job, unless I invested the big bucks and babied it.. The tools that seem to last are my older ones and the ones I inherited from my Dad. Tools seem to have a soul, nice to see them live on...

I'll be looking forward to any articles or post on the subject...

Bill

[BobSmalser]

You can get a headstart, Bill...lotsa material out there....but little of it geared to the newbie 30-year-old with new family who needs furniture and is subject to listen to heros on TV and in magazines whose real purpose in life is to sell tools and books...most of those tools that kid'd be much better off without.

That may not be you, but that's my target...and my message is a bit different.

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=handtools&file=articles_117.shtml

http://www.sover.net/~nichael/nlc-wood/stanref-num.html

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/

http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/tool_restoration.htm

http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=main&right=/library/library.html

[Frank Hagan]

I'm working on a $10 Stanley No. 5 plane now. Actually, I got the Stanley No. 5 and three wooden planes for that $10. My interest in the tools is practical though; I clean them up to use them. I understand that I probably ruin them for collectors by doing it, because I work on getting the sole flat and usually end up removing all the patina and tar coating on the sides when I remove the rust (Simon, I'd like to hear how the electrolysis method worked to remove rust ... I'm using chemicals and a lot of wire brush work).

The handle and its through-bolt was broken, but the rest of the parts were in very good shape. So, my attempt at making a handle is below; but I think I'll end up buying one of those rosewood handle sets (not sure I can drill the hole in the handle without a drill press.)

[attachment over 4 years old deleted by admin]

[Mike Donlin]

Here is a link to a site that explains the process of rust removal. http://www.bhi.co.uk/hints/rust.htm I haven't tried this yet but it sounds like it works real well.

[Johannah]

New addition to my Christmas list: The rest of this article. Bob, I am way outside your target definition but have been in love with tools since a toddler. I sometimes buy good used tools as gifts to many handy buddies. The number of old tool lovers is legion and even the experienced love to see good pics showing the restoration process. Sounds like some more chapters for your book. Have a title yet or can we have a contest?

[Dave Fleming]

:!:

Couple of points on restoring tools for use.

Old handsaws if of good quality were of a grade of steel that was specially tempered. Sometimes referred to as London Spring Steel or Siver Steel.

It doesn't take much to ruin the temper of those jewels.

Most saw shops today have a grinding apparatus for sharpening the teeth. UNLESS the operator is skilled and knowledgeable about old saws the saw can be ruined by that sharpening.

I try to find a shop that has an ACME Saw Filer machine.

It takes regular 8 inch saw files for sharpening.

Automatic tooth setters are another way to ruin and good saw.

I have had this little scam tried on me too.

Take saw in and come back to pick it up. Comment from saw shop owner..." Oh, your saw cracked during sharpening. I will replace it with a new one, OK?" Reply..."HELL NO, just give me my saw back and I will make scrapers out of the pieces." Owner, 'Well OK, I will try to find it out in the scrap heap and get back to you.". Me..."NO I will wait right here until you find it!"

5 or so minutes later he comes back with my saw and NO CRACK in it.

Owner..."gee must have been another fellas' saw I was thinking about."

Scam to get your collectable saw for himself or sell to some 'yuppie' type so he can paint a pretty pitcha on it or hang it in his den along with all the other tools he has no inkling of how to use. They are there 'chust for pretty', if ya folla?

The electrolysis method of cleaning rust works quite well and you don't need the caustic solution just regular Arm and Hammer Washing Soda is fine.

Don't become 'anal' about some things like, the sole of a metal plane.

There are some who go to great lengths to flatten a plane sole.

Granite surface plates, Starrett straight edges, micro fine grit papers etc..

Just polish it up till the grunge is gone and give it a good coat of Treewax or other wax MINUS the silicones and you are good to go.

Fit of blade and chipbreaker is more important to me than how close the sole is to being flat to the lowest thou.

For making your own woodworking tools might see if you can get a copy of Alexander Weygers books. Some interesting stuff in them, or so says I.

If you do try making your own tools don't use leaf springs from newer cars or trucks. Try to find them from vehicles before 1960 or so. In that time frame there was a change in the formulation of the steel used for springs and the newer stuff doesn't work well in home forging.

[BobSmalser]

Don't become 'anal' about some things like, the sole of a metal plane.

There are some who go to great lengths to flatten a plane sole.

Granite surface plates, Starrett straight edges, micro fine grit papers etc..

Just polish it up till the grunge is gone and give it a good coat of Treewax or other wax MINUS the silicones and you are good to go.

Fit of blade and chipbreaker is more important to me than how close the sole is to being flat to the lowest thou.

:wink:

This all got started here:

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=handtools&Number=722851&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

and here:

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB8&Number=730143&Forum=All_Forums&Words=flatten%20sole&Match=And&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=729856&Search=true#Post730143

Common themes today on all the woodworking sites I'm new to where newbies are being shilled by the Norms of the world to buy 200-dollar block planes they don't need or doodads counterproductive to what they are trying to do. This appears what my craft has come to since I stopped taking Fine Woodworking 10 years ago... old FWW these days is no different than Norm now, either.

Things don't change much...the typical beginning woodworker today is a 30-year-old with new family and the nesting instinct who needs some furniture...often a cradle for the first baby....and has no dough at all to waste.

That young family does not need pockethole jigs, 300-dollar fancy tablesaw fences, 150-dollar scrub planes, 200-dollar circular waterstone sharpening mills, biscuit joiners, mortising machines or all the other gizmos either frivolous or designed for production work making kitchen cabinets that will be torn out and discarded in 30 years.

Since my shock at the blatant consumerist thrust of these "Fine Woodworking" forums of a month or so ago I've made myself a mental note that I can set a kid up from scratch in a shop sufficient to win juried furniture shows for under a thousand five hundred bucks...buying a mix of Ebay for rehab, used Delta and the odd new Grizzly piece.

Not that Norm and I wouldn't be great friends if we were next-door neighbors...but on rainy days this winter I'll spend some time as...

...Bob The Anti-Norm

After all....when the kids are bigger and their wallets are fatter...they will often turn to boatbuilding...hopefully after I help teach them to learn to cut enuf joints to get by and use drywall screws for drywall, where they belong.

[Dave Fleming]

I agree, that there is too much emphasis being put on folks to get the latest and greatest wood working gizmos out there.

Any of you folks ever look in the tool chest of an oldtimer cabinet maker or boat builder? Or look closely at photos of krenov's work area.

Not too many shiny bronze bodied whizbangs there to these tired old eyes.

As far as Normie goes, I have said it before and I will say it again. He is a reasonable craftsman but for my money in that group, Tom Silva is a true mechanic*.

* Mechanic and honorific used in the yards to describe a person who is just a bit above the others in talent and skill.

Ok, here is what I posted long ago on another forum about getting started in woodworking or boatbuilding as the case may be.

On Getting Started In Woodworking.

Over the years a number of folks have asked me, what books to read to learn woodworking. Books

can be useful do keep in mind they are books....* NOT * hands on instruction and I have a difficult time with the idea of learning how to do it with books and even videos, as the sole source of instruction. I realize full well that most do not have the

time to drop everything and take 6 months to 2 years learning from a

willing mentor or at some school.

I would suggest that first thought should be given to hand tools.

Get comfortable with holding a handsaw, chisel, plane and hammer.

You will be surprised how much there is to learn about the way you

hold each tool, how it works on different woods. And it will help too

in your understanding of how a particular wood works.

You don't need a set of Lie-Nielsen planes or a set of Japanese

chisels either. A few Record or Stanley ( made in England) planes and

a set of Marples Blue handled or even the Stanley black and yellow

handled ones will do.

Start with very uncomplicated projects. A birdhouse, shoeshine kit, a

pull toy for a child. And use plans that is what they are for.

Above all do not become discouraged. You * are * going to make

mistakes. Accept it, analyze where you went wrong and move on.

Don't rush out and buy $5.00 a board foot wood. Go to the local Home

Depot or whatever and get some pieces of plain old Pine shelving stock

and work with that.

Patience is not only a virtue it an absolute necessity in woodworking

as in all crafts. This is not instant gratification but it is very

gratifying when well done.

As you gain confidence add to your tools based upon the direction you

wish to take in the craft. Kitchen cabinets will require power tools.

Whilst a person interested in small boxes and the like may well get

along without a significant number of them.

Proper and safe use of power tools requires careful thinking and the

forgiveness factor that was present in hand tool work is conspicuous

by its absence! Make every effort to get some form of instruction in

person prior to purchasing or using power tools on your own.

If the local school system does not offer instruction perhaps a local

woodworking/ cabinet shop would be willing to give basic lessons for a

small fee. The posts I read from people who are purchasing table saws,

band saws and the like and who mention that they have no previous

experience with such tools is very upsetting from a safety perspective

if from nothing else

When I entered my apprenticeship there was some

little time before I did more than pull nails out of staging planks. I

was exposed to much by observing and helping so that when it came time

for me to actually do something all was not new and strange.

There was awareness and a bit of understanding of a process gained by

all that frustrating observation and assisting. The light bulb did not

suddenly flash on but some current was trickling in.

On power tools may I say that it is my opinion that the best you can

afford is none too good. Don't let price be your only criteria.

Remember these companies are fully aware of the average spendable

income of home shop types and they build and sell accordingly.

A second hand machine of good quality is to be preferred to a brand

new, price is right machine of lesser quality. And there is today a

vast difference in quality even in similar models made by the same

manufacturer. Tools may not make the craftsman but they should not

hinder the process either.

Outfit yourself with a good set of mechanics tools as you are buying

your woodworking hand tools. You will need them for fine tuning your

machines eventually anyhow and they do come in handy for fixing the

car or washing machine also.:-)

Above all I cannot stress planning your steps and patience in

executing them.

Woodworking is to some a vocation and nothing more. A means to an

end. Whilst to others such as I, it is a vocation and an avocation.

[BobSmalser]

Not exactly the plane iron, but I strop them on the 8" wheel with KnifeMaker's Green Rouge

Note the hair above the edge bevel:

[Frank Hagan]

You guys are speaking my language now! I have a $150 Incra jig I haven't used and a nearly worthless band saw fence that set me back $120, but is nice and pretty. I decided to quit spending money on tools I don't need until I know more, and I realize that by then, I may find I never need them!

So much of what is out there now is designed to separate you from your money. I'm very happy with my Jet contractor's saw, and wouldn't upgrade unless I find a used cabinet saw for a good price (and even then, I'm not sure I would need it). And I like my band saw. But a lot of the other things I have spent money on have not been worth it.

This was driven home to me when my brothers and I first started inheriting my father's tools. He was a carpenter, and did a lot of finish work in Orange County. At his memorial service, I mentioned that he built things, and we were always proud of that. And I remember some great finish work he did along the way, including a matched grain ceiling in a church that was spectacular. And ... his tools are junk.

His hand tools were nice, serviceable tools like the planes I have. Not fancy, but serviceable. But his table saw was an old Craftsman from back in the 40's or 50's. The jointer he used was the same ... sleeve bearings, short infeed and outfeed tables. Both were mounted on a hand-made "cart" with an ingenious hinging mechanism for an outfeed table behind the saw. And while these tools were "junk", the stuff that came off them was wonderful. I told myself we had it backwards today ... great tools and junk being produced.

I had started a site dedicated to woodworking. Even set up the forum, found a way to import the messages from the newsgroups rec.woodworking and rec.boats.building, and have the domain up on the 'net. But content is king on these things, and I don't have the knowledge and experience to provide that. Plus there's so many woodworking sites out there it seems redundant. But most are festooned with dozens of ads everywhere, and not much in the way of usable content. I'd love to have a "messing-about" of woodworking.

When things settle down, I'd like to see if I can use some of the info you (Bill and Dave) have provided and get that site started up again.

[Dave Fleming]

"(Bill and Dave) have"

Ya mean ***Bob*** and I perchance?

:mrgreen: 8)

[Simon]

Hey, Bill's pretty knowledgable as well!

Dave, I've no reason to supect that my saw has lost its temper, (though it did complain a bit when I put it down the other day ), what would you look for to determine this ... some blueing of the teeth perhaps? And I guess it would go blunt quiet quickly, it hasn't done that yet, but I've been using it on hardwood (Jarrah), cuts really nice, but I wander how long it last now. :shock:

[Dave Fleming]

Yes the teeth might have a blue tinge and the tooth edge would be weak too.

If you can cut that Jarrah with it and it still is looking good then you lucked out. :wink:

[Simon]

:!:

I have had this little scam tried on me too.

Take saw in and come back to pick it up. Comment from saw shop owner..." Oh' date=' your saw cracked during sharpening. I will replace it with a new one, OK?" Reply..."HELL NO, just give me my saw back and I will make scrapers out of the pieces." Owner, 'Well OK, I will try to find it out in the scrap heap and get back to you.". Me..."NO I will wait right here until you find it!"

5 or so minutes later he comes back with my saw and NO CRACK in it.

Owner..."gee must have been another fellas' saw I was thinking about."

Scam to get your collectable saw for himself or sell to some 'yuppie' type so he can paint a pretty pitcha on it or hang it in his den along with all the other tools he has no inkling of how to use. They are there 'chust for pretty', if ya folla?

[/quote']

Thanks Dave. On the above, I took the (lovely, wooden, fastened with brass) handle off before I handed it over, which I guess would discourage this kind of thing.

[Frank Hagan]

"(Bill and Dave) have"

Ya mean ***Bob*** and I perchance?

:mrgreen: 8)

:oops: :oops: :oops: Of course :oops: :oops: :oops:

Reminds me of the time I was introduced to a guy named Frank, we talked for a little bit, and then I said "What was your name again?"

He had that look I get every now and then ... the puzzled expression that says "He seemed so normal at first ..."

Sorry, Bob!

[BobSmalser]

As far as Normie goes, I have said it before and I will say it again. He is a reasonable craftsman but for my money in that group, Tom Silva is a true mechanic*.

* Mechanic and honorific used in the yards to describe a person who is just a bit above the others in talent and skill.

Silva's obviously the boss...the brains of the outfit who can do anything well.

Norm is a set-in-his-ways finish carpenter...a good one...trim, kitchen cabinets and other face-frame builtins done at a commercial pace...trying to adapt fine furniture joinery to finish-carpenter techniques. The results are amusing...especially when the airnailer gets fired up to drive 6 brads (usually where screws woulda been more appropriate).

I get the impression Norm never really learned how to cut joints and is uncomfortable with it.

[Dave Fleming]

8)

Yeah, he might have a problem with something like this.

No brads nor screws either.

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