john_manchester

Thnanks for the pointers guys.

That's a good idea about additional purchase on the snotter. It's currently 2:1. I also found I had to go about 6" over spec on the sprit length. Maybe I will have to make an even longer one. That should be enough to trim that sail up? Would rigging a traveler for example help? After crewing on some of the other boats in the club, I'm amazed at how simple the sharpie rig is. The boat is impressively fast downwind and on a reach (even without the staysail), but I get destroyed upwind. I hope I'll see the same sort of improvements you did with proper snotter tension. There are 3 tales, but you have me thinking I should add some in the belly and more on the leach--I had no idea for example the main has been twisting off as far as it is in the pics. The lake is usually very gusty, although as you mention I can usually handle the gusts fine by dumping the main. Mostly I was afraid of breaking something, and I was a little curious about sailing reefed. I broke 2 main sprits last year--the second was a 2x3 I chopped out of a douglas fir board with decent grain. This year's sprit is a handrail with a single layer of fiberglass tape on it, which has held up much better. That started me thinking though about the stress I'd been putting on the main tabernacle, not to mention the mast where it pivots in the tabernacle. (I had to replace my wooden masts last year - lost the mizzen over the winter in an ice storm, and the main in a race after stupidly stabilizing the bottom of the track with a big hose clamp which, I realized while watching the rig topple toward the water, created a stress concentration). They're both aluminum now, haven't had time to build new wooden ones. Does the EC-22 fly a jib? I was under the impression that it did, but I went back and looked more closely last night and it looks like a down-wind sail (asymmetric spinnaker or maybe genniker?).

Thought I'd tune in to share a couple of photos of P22 #19 "rounding the marks" on Lake Massabesic yesterday. I get very few pictures of the boat for some reason - probably my face breaking cameras. Anyway we finished third in both races. In the interest of full disclosure, there were only 4 boats in the open class yesterday, but boat #4 was still decent with an experienced crew. We took the lead in the first race on the downwind leg, but couldn't hold it upwind. Stayed pretty much in 3rd place for the whole second race. Criticism on sail trim is welcome. The main for example looks like it's twisting too far off to me, even though I had the snotter pretty tight. Mabye the sprit needs to be attached still farther up the mast? Hard to tell I suppose because it's reefed. This is the first time I've sailed the boat reefed. It was gusting over 20, and I was surprised how tame she felt. The Princess in general likes a lot of wind, and my experience has been that she's in her element when other boats (such as Catalina 22) are totally overpowered. I'm also sort of wondering about boat trim. I get a lot of sloshing in the motor well. Maybe the stern is sitting too low in the water?

Wow, 10.5 is really cooking! Travis, you have given my life renewed purpose. I made a plug also that wedges in, but it's a little cumbersome. I think I read a while back on this list about somebody planning to build doors in the well. I wonder if they had any luck. Ray - that sounds like fun. Why don't you drop me a line at john_manchester@hotmail.com and we can work out the particulars. Got some stuff stuff to try now, this has been really helpful--thanks guys!

Thanks guys, that's very helpful. The boat seems to like a lot of wind, so I have been keeping the sails pretty full. I didn't realize how must twist there was in the main until I saw the picture. If I understand this right, hooking the sprit higher up on the main mast will remove some of the twist without flattening the sail as much as just tightening the snotter. I'll give it a try. Most of the guys in the club have been racing for years. Races are every Sunday ~May-October, usually 4 classes (Windmill, Lightning, Catalina 22 and Open). I'm more or less a buoy to the windmills and lightnings (http://www.mycsailing.com/). The Catalinas can point higher, as can the Hunter 23 with the colorful jib in the photo. Although in a good breeze (15 knots or more--sorry, can't remember what that's called on the Beaufort scale), I can pretty much stay wtih the pack to windward. In puffs she picks up and goes, where the other boats tend to heel way over and round up. But under 10 knots, which is the norm on the lake, I struggle to even top 6 mph (gps). On a reach she's just as fast as any of the other cruisers her size, and off the wind she's faster (go wing on wing, pull the board up and just walk away--it's a great feeling!). But then we round the leeward mark, head into the wind, and I'm toast. I'm sure I'm doing lots of little things wrong, just trying to figure out what they are... Travis - sounds like you've really got trailering down to a science. There's a lot of slack in my setup, so I can rest the sprits in the gulley formed between the masts when they're down. The main sprit has a single block forward, held on with a cow hitch passed through a hole near the end of the snotter. The snotter runs from the mast, through the sprit block and back to a block on the mast (then down to a cheek block on the tabernacle and aft to a clam cleat on the cabin top). Does your setup keep the sprit from pulling away from the mast on the "good" tack? I wonder how important that is. Have you clocked the Pilgrim without the staysail? I think my personal record is 7.8 mph on a reach (without the staysail). The sails are from Sail Rite (a kit), and just followed the sail plan which suggested the "2 + 2" batten setup. The clews are just grommets. The sheet block is attached through the clew and a hole in the aft end of the sprit (with another cow hitch which I tell myself distributes the load to more or less symmetric compression around the sprit). Travis, I had another question about the cut-out in the transom for the motor well. Does water pass clear underneath it, or do you get some sloshing? I'm wondering if I built mine too heavy and she sits too low in the water. The cut-out is clear out of the water, but one she's moving there's quite a bit of sloshing.

One of the guys in my club snapped these yesterday. I hope you can see them, it's been a while since I've posted and I'm not sure I'm doing it right. At any rate in 3 years these are the first photos I've got of the boat underway! She gets lots of compliments, thanks to Pettit Unepoxy burgundy #3626. I suppose Graham deserves some credit, too.

I'm surprised nobody's called me a wimp so far. Guess I'll be doing some wet-sanding and trying to figure out this "strategy" thing folks are using. Thanks guys.

Yes, exactly, I meant the Portsmouth yardstick. Thanks Tom. http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/ I joined a club as a racing member a couple of years ago and routinely place, commensurate with skill level, IQ and overall energy, somewhere near the bottom. The most similar boats usually racing in the same (open) class are a Hunter 23 and Tanzer 22. The skippers are really good sailors, but up until now I was under the impression that the boat also had something to do with it. However, I just found out my boat was assigned a 96.3, similar to the Hunter. Unfortunately I have just enough ego that I can't suppress the wishful thought that the low-key rig, or at least the name "Princess", might warrant a higher number for the Princess.

Hi Guys. Just wondering if anyone has a reasonable guess as to what the Portsmouth Number should be for the P22.

I stuck with the original bulkhead placement, just boxed in the head and extended the galley. The space came out of the births of course. I made a table that flips over and sets in between the births, giving about a queen size mattress' worth of space. This arrangement has been very comfortable, and the kids get a real kick out of the cabin. If I were going to do it again, I think I might do away with the enclosed head and extend a birth under the bridge deck on the port side. I like the big galley, and it would probably be nice to have a place just to sit opposite. I guess you're thinking of pulling the cabin back to the mizzen tabernacle. You're right that the motor well sucks up a lot of space, and the motor sticks into to cockpit beyond the mount. It would be nice to shift the mount aft and maybe build a cover. But I don't know if it'd be worth it because it's sort of already busy enough back there with the tiller, sheets, bimini and lockers. I now like the position of the well as is, and I personally wouldn't give up the bridge deck. Makes a nice big comfortable cockpit. I think the original design is very nicely balanced, everything just looks right. I got a lot of compliments this summer, which is saying a lot for the design because I certainly didn't impress anyone with my seamanship (or craftsmanship). Anyway it would take all the fun out of it if you could get everything from just one boat. Good luck. If you're ever in New Hampshire you're more than welcome to stop by if that'd help.

Norm, I just followed Frank Hagan's page on making birdsmouth masts. approach (http://users2.ev1.net/~fshagan/bm.htm). I started with 1x2s ripped from 28' 2x12s from the local lumber yard (doug fir, I guess for floor joists). I "stickered" them under the boat for a year while I was buildilng it so they were good and dry, and the individual staves were strong except around knots which I tried to avoid. I used a circular saw and cheap table saw to taper and notch the staves. I did not plane the staves to thickness along their lengths (so the walls get proportially thicker near the top). I glued the mizzen up with epoxy, then ran out of patience and used gorilla glue on the main. After planing/sanding (went pretty quick), I went back over and filled all the voids I could find with thickened epoxy. I wrapped a few layers of tape around the hinge and base. The main might weigh 40 lbs, no problem to handle myself in any case, and it's surprisingly stiff. However I do not feel at comfortable about having knots. The masts were a lot of fun, and I would build them again. Might have to anyway. Next time I will use clear fir, and find a decent table saw. I did everything myself on this boat, I mean alone with nobody around to help. I think the hardest part was turning it over since it's big and heavy, and hard to control. The most unpleasant part was pouring the keel. The lead generated a lot of slag, and I just was very nervous in general the whole time about heavy metal contamination of things. Second most unpleasant was sheathing with polyester. It's tough as hell, but you can't feather it, and it drinks up a ton of epoxy. Next time I would use glass.

Look how happy the boat has made this guy. Well, maybe he looks a little delirious from physical exertion and breathing sawdust, and because his glasses are epoxied to his hair. But mostly it's pure joy. Graham, thank you. Thanks also to all the regulars on this forum, you guys are a huge help. Aaarrrrrrrr!!!!!!

For the past year and a half I have been a little embarassed to tell people she's a "Princess". After 10 minutes with the sails up, I finally got it. A princess is exactly what she is.

I'm posting these 3 as proof that the cabin was, once upon a time, clean and dry. And free of crayon. The varished plywood between the seats flips over and mounts on the tabernacle via pintels and gudgeons to make a table. The other end is held by a line up to an eye on the hatch frame. The galley and head are for the kids, although the ergonomics in the head are pretty good once you're actually seated. Kind of like a Corvette.

Hanging on for dear life, my crew managed to snap this single photo on the maiden voyage showing part of the builder's head and, in the background, Skip, still marveling at the particular functional congruity (ie buoyancy) of my latest project. Skip has seen my work in the past.

"It actually floats" observed my good friend Skip.

Here we are ready to set off for the water (in the northern hemisphere, and we'll be staying right away from Antarctica unlike her more famous namesake). The kids think she's named after Sleeping Beauty.

Thanks guys, the netting looks good. I was mostly concerned about strength of the stanchions but apparently that's not an issue, I imagine so long as they're bolted through the deck and a backing plate.

She's almost done, left the shop last week. As I hoped the 3 little monkeys peaking out the hatch really like her. Unfortunately they also really like climbing on the decks, which has now been strictly forbidden by the captain. But the captain wants them to be able to climb on the decks if that's what they want, so long as it's safe. Can you guys give me any advice on how to rig simple (i.e. cheap) but effective life lines? I don't actually care how they look, and I don't want to spend a lot of time or money (this season at least--the boat is going in the water come hell or, well, high water). I'm thinking along the lines of bolting 6 or 8 1" stanchion bases through the deck, mounting 24" lengths of aluminum tubing in them, and running lines at 1' and ~2' off the deck through holes drilled in the tubes. Or even some of that plastic orange mesh, I am not picky. I think I could pull that off for about 100 bucks, but don't know if it would be strong enough to catch a slipping kid. Thanks--I'll post more pictures too, sorry for the long silence. The princess has been very demanding...

Wow is that a nice looking hull. And BIG! I also agonized between the Princess and Hartley 24. On the one hand the Hartley looked like a more comfortable boat to sleep in once your wife kicks you out for spending all your time on it. On the other hand I thought I might be able to actually finish the Princess without actually needing another place to stay. So far so good. But I still have the Hartley study prints tacked to the wall over my side of the bed. So how are you going to turn that sucker over--or do you just sail upside-down in the Southern Hemisphere?

It's toast for me too. Does it work for Joe?

Hi Graham, thanks for the breath of sanity. I've been a little more spastic than usual since you spooked me out of my low-tech mindset (I'm building my real Dacron sails now from a Sailrite kit, a lot easier than I thought it'd be--if I can keep the cats off them while trying to sew). Just worried about making dumb mistakes since I'm all itchy to get out there. And that huge grin on Travis' face while at the tiller isn't helping! Hey Travis, thanks again for your detailed replies (Pilgrim really is an appropriate name!). How do you set the reef cringles on the sprit--I mean, what's the "loop"? I've got brass rings sewn into the reef tacks and clews on my sails, assumed that those would normally slide over hooks on the (sprit) boom. Anybody have any recommendations on what size line to use for the halyards, sheets and snotter? Is 5/16" too light?

Thanks Travis, that's really helpful. In my little boat I have to jump back and forth when I tack, and I guess studying all those action photos of Joe at work on his boat got it into my head that I'm be doing the same thing on the Princess. Your granddaugher looks like she's having a blast. I have 3 little kids, but among us we've probably got a total of less than 24 hours on the water, so I have plenty to worry about as it is. I really like the idea of being able to get those sails down and under control without leaving the cockpit. Doesn't seem like there'd a lot of complexity or expense involved, just a matter of figuring out what needs to be run where.

Well it finally hit zero here last night. Too cold to let the chickens out, or the brass monkey for that matter, and definitely too cold to mix epoxy. Perfect virtual sailing weather. As I recline against the coaming and stare off at the horizon, contemplating the half dozen production boats I blew by this afternoon, a sudden gust threatens to spill my beverage. The cooler is, of course, well stocked. But why risk it? I lean forward to loose the halyard and pull on the first reefing line, and my hand passes right through because I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. How on earth do you rig this sucker? The halyards and lines that tension the snotters seem pretty obvious, but what size line should I use? And how should I rig the main sheet to avoid having to pass it around the mizzen tabernacle every time I tack? And what about reefing, in the most casual, laid-back, single-handed way possible? I guess you could use a double cheek block on the end of main sprit to handle lines to the first and second reef clews, which would run up to the mast, down to the deck somehow, then the aft again. But I don't see an easy way to cradle the reefed part of the sail. With a wishbone you could make a cradle underneath the sail (and run the first and second reef lines other either side of the wishbone). But you guys don't talk much about wishbones. Do you have a secret way of rigging lazy jacks with a sprit boom?

I feel your pain, brother. I got some good advice from a friend, which has helped me a lot. Maybe you will find it useful: Rebuilding an engine: to the nearest 1/1000" Making furniture: to the nearest 1/64" Building a boat: to the nearest boat.