Inwale wood recommendation

[zumwaltd]

What type of wood do y'all recommend for inwales on my Belhaven.  The plans call for "fir", but my local lumberyard has only Hemlock fir in 20ft lengths which are straight with a few very small knots.  I have read hemlock is too soft.  It also has pine, which is not straight and very knotty.  One option would be to drive 40 miles to local Lowes and check their wood supply.  I guess my question is; should I make the inwales from the Hemlock?

 

Thanks for any insights.

 

Dave Z

[PAR]

I'll assume this is western Hemlock, which is pretty much interchangeable with Douglas fir, within the industry.

[Jim Stumpf]

Here in the midwest we see hem-fir which would be hard to work with. It is very brittle and does not hold fasteners. As a general contractor we frown when the stuff shows up on site because you can be sure that every time you nail a stud to a plate the bottom of the stud is going to break off in big shards. The hem fir shows up as 2*4 and other dimension construction grade lumber and is stamped as Hem-Fir. If it is the same stuff I would avoid it. Check with your local lumber yard for structural grade framing (like for long roof rafters) that tends to be fir, at least here in NE Ohio. If you have the ability to rip it you could buy 2*8 or some other rafter grade size then cut all of your frame parts and possibly even your gunwales, knees and other parts from the same stock. 

 

Jim

[zumwaltd]

Thanks for the replies. The lumber I brought home is stamped "hem fir". I will visit my local lumberyard and check their supply of structural grade framing.

Regards,

Dave Z

[Howard]

Dave:

 

I am located near you in Missouri, and have started a Princess. I too would have guessed you found Hem-Fir. The yards here offer it as a poor man's Doug Fir. (I equate it to Flat Iron steak, which isn't steak at all. It's chuck roast). I was at Menards a few days ago and their yard was full of it (Hem-Fir, not steak). In our yards, I have never seen Hemlock of any type. The other common option is SPF, which is either spruce, pine or fir. Most construction lumber around here is going to be SPF, which is likely the alternative they showed you.

 

As for the Hem-Fir you already have, I guess it depends on the boat you are building. If this is going to be an heirloom type of thing and you only want the best, you may want to hold out for Doug Fir. If this is a knockabout and/or first time build and you are not overly concerned about it, the Hem-Fir may work. While brittle and subject to splitting, it does glue well.

 

Finding suitable grades of structural lumber (suitable to me anyway) has been a challenge. For something like your inwhales and cleats, you should be able to find halfway decent doug fir in most yards. Grades are #2 (knotty and generally defective), #1, better and Select Structural which around most yards, will be the best you fill find. Virtually all of the yards in the Midwest are selling construction grade lumber, not marine grades. Some of the mill shops around can do better, but they are hard to find and most are not interested in anything retail. Until you get up into 2 x 12 sizes, expect to find 90% plus of all construction lumber to be flat sawn. What is tolerated for construction lumber is not so hot for boats.

 

For cleats and perhaps inwhales, believe it or "knot", some of the best (and least expensive) doug fir I've found is at Home Depot. Some of the bundles of 2 x 6 studs they put on the floor are mostly Doug Fir (D-Fir). Look through the entire bundle and you may find a few with relatively straight (and tight) grain and few knots. Avoid boards with white strips on the edges as the white part is probably the weaker sap wood on the edge of the tree. To yield the type of strips you want, look for flat sawn boards (rings run with the long (6") axis of the stud, such that when you rip them out, your inwhale or cleat becomes vertical sawn grain, which is more stable when you glue it up. You won't find any 20' lengths, but you can scarf shorter pieces into longer ones. Three rips from an 8' stud will easily make your entire 20' inwhale and cost about $6. A few months ago, I walked past a bundle of these type of 2 x 4 studs at Lowes. Remarkably, there were 2 or 3 absolutely flawless flat sawn Doug Fir boards in that bundle and were $3 each. I didn't need them at the time, and walked away. Should have snagged them. I would use them someday and in the meantime, they would be drying out. The point is, if you are building boats, snag your lumber when you find it, cause when you go looking, most likely you won't find it.

 

As long as you are ripping strips, flat sawn is fine and is actually preferred. If you need to laminate up wider boards, such as for a keel, flat sawn should be avoided. Over time, it tends to cup, so placed in a lamination, may blow your lamination apart. For that, you will want vertical grain and I have found that almost impossible to find.

[zumwaltd]

Howard, thanks for sharing this info.  I just checked the Lowe's web site in Ponca City, OK  and they claim to have douglas fir in numerous lengths.  I will drive their and check tonight or tomorrow.  My intention is to build this boat well so it can be passed on to one of my grand kids when my time on this earth is over. .

 

Regards,

 

Dave Z

[Howard]

By all means take a look.  I've not seen much good quality stuff at any of the box stores, outside of the occasional stud grade board in an entire bundle. I asked once about the higher quality in larger sizes and was told "we don't do that here". You might find bits and pieces of individual boards you can carve out to use. I have done some of that.

 

If nothing there suits, you might ask a local high end builder where they source their lumber. The box stores in our town don't stock #1 or Structural Select, but the local yards do.

 

Option C or D is to keep an eye peeled for buildings being salvaged. Some of that lumber will still be good as new and the quality would likely surpass anything you could find today.

[Hirilonde]

 The box stores in our town don't stock #1 or Structural Select, but the local yards do.

There are 2 very good reasons to do this:

 

1.  It will likely get you some quality lumber

2.  Your dollars spent will help send the message that the consumer wants quality product from service minded suppliers, not big box stores.

[Jim Stumpf]

Hey Dave,

 

The Lowes near my home carries rafter grade lumber in southern yellow pine which works really well. I am in a metro area with access to at least 3 other Lowes and none of the others carry it. If you are trekking to a far off store try calling to see if they have structural grade framing material in doug fir or southern yellow. Any old school lumber yard should have something suitable. The pic below is my CS 17 center board made from a 2*10*18 that I ripped up for all of my stringers and structural parts.

 

Jim

 

[zumwaltd]

I just stopped by my local yard again and they have nice looking 2x8 yellow pine in 20ft. lengths. I think I will use that.

Thanks everyone for your assistance.

Dave Z