yggmeanhorse Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Hi Every One, Last week I took my Firefly on a 340 mile race on the Missouri river. It was a lot of fun. At first I was a little worried about staying right side up because I only had the Firefly out a few times before the race. I took it to a lake to test it twice and managed to flip it over both times. After that but before the MR340 I took the Firefly on a 20 mile race on the Kaw river in Kansas and a 40 mile practice run on the Missouri. I did not have any problems then although it still seemed a little shakey. Last I took it back to the lake and flipped it 4 or 5 times and practiced getting back in using a paddle float. Tuesday Oct 11th. I started the race in Kansas City. I don't know if I had got used to it or if having some gear in the boat made it more stable but it felt good and was very stable through out the race. I paddled through some really rough water, two thunderstorms and a few big wakes from barges with out any problem............. I hate to admit this but I also hit the end of a wing dike moving pretty fast and still was able to stay right side up. I got a lot of compliments on my boat along the way. That was really nice. Made it to St. Charles MO, Friday morning around 10:30. I rubbed a hole in the front of the boat on the keel early in the race. It was from pulling up onto boat ramps. I was able to patch it with some duct tape and it never leaked again. But now I will have to repair that. Does any one have any suggestions on how to do that? Once I patch it I will put a teflon, or maybe brass strip over that spot. Hopefully that will keep that from happening again. The only other problem I had was keeping the boat strait. It sure seems like I need a rudder. When I had the boat in the lake it tracked pretty good. But once on the river I met a lot of wind and also I suspect river currents. Anyway It was really hard to keep the thing pointed the way I wanted to go. I would have to paddle on one side a lot and also often paddle on one side then drag my paddle on the other side. Also if I would stop paddling the boat would turn sideways in the river (the way the wind was blowing it). Some of the guys I was with said if I had a rudder I could keep it strait. The bad thing about it turning when I was not paddling was that at night I wanted to look at my map and keep an eye out for bouys that may be in front of me, but in no time I was side ways and it was hard to keep a look out ahead. Anyway, I am just learning about boats so I would sure like some advice on repairing the hole and about rudders or any other way to help me control my boat. I would like to say I had a good time in my Firefly and can now say for sure..... its a tough little boat. That was one long paddle and she came through really good. Thanks *Jay* Quote
Kudzu Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 First off congrats on finishing! From what I hear that is one tough race. As the designer I am really curious about the tracking issue. I paddled my Long Shot along side the Firefly I built for a friend and it tracked better than my Long Shot. I had a similar problem with my Long Shot not tracking well in high winds. When we got back I got in Coy's Firefly and I found I could make it go anywhere I wanted in the high winds. I was very impressed with the way the boat behaved. So you experince puzzles me. One thing that makes a huge difference in these two boats is learning to lean it to make it turn. Most times I just lean the boat left and it will turn right without any or very minimal paddle input. Of course in some conditions any boat may not behave perfectly such as a high wind. When that happens If you learn to paddle with the boat leaned just a little to compensate it can take care of that. But without being there and paddling the boat I can't say for sure. Just thinking out loud. As for the weathercocking, I have never found either of the boats want to weather cock (turn into the wind). How did you have you boat loaded? If you didn't have the weight even spread front and year that could cause that. To much weight in the front will make one weather cock. You want to balance out the load or maybe put a little extra in the rear. With all that said, everyone is different and you may prefer a stronger tracking boat than I do. I am not a fan of rudders and they would ruin the looks of a Baidarka. Plus it is just something else to break and there is no place to mount one on the boat. But you might want to add a skeg. A small skeg can make a big difference in the tracking. My Long Shot was the prototype and I found the frame was to flexiable and changed that on the plans before I released it. I found that boat developed more rocker when I sat it in and it didn't track well. So I add a skeg that was a little large. I trimmed it down a couple of times till I found a good balance. Now my Long Shot tracks as well as Coys Firefly. I think I posted photos on here? If not I will latter. I have to get out the door. Quote
P Doug (WA) Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Thanks for posting the write up and pictures of your adventure. Looks like great fun. How long does it take to travel that far? Quote
yggmeanhorse Posted October 21, 2011 Author Posted October 21, 2011 Hi, I did it in about 74 and a half hours. The fastest boat this year did it in around 38 hours. Its hard to do it in less the 50. It seems like its some what evenly spread out for 60's, 70,s and 80,s hour wise. 88 is the limit. If you want to know more about the race the web site is at www.rivermiles.com You can read a lot about it on the forum. I do not have a lot of experience with boats or boat building so I may be missing some thing or maybe just not understanding whats going on.. Also, I was in some pretty high winds. At first I did not think it was the wind, but the more I paid attention the more it seemed like that was it. Other boats around me were having the same problems. It did seem like boats with rudders were not having the problems. The Firefly did not turn into the wind but wanted to turn sideways to it. I am not sure how well balanced my load was, but I would suspect more weight to the rear. My Firefly looks nice and strait, but I think it would be possible that it is not so perfect. So it may not all be wind causing my problem. Still, it would want to turn one way or the other, I would think if I built it a little off, it would pull the same way all the time. Anyway, I did not notice it unless it was windy. I want to experiment a little with it and see if I can improve on it so any suggestions to help me trouble shoot some thing I may have done wrong and ideas to try would be a big help. I think first I will try putting a skeg on it and see how it handles. Seemed like almost every one I talked to on the river wanted a rudder on their boat, but I agree with you. I would rather not have one. Seems like just one more thing to have problems with. I think if it turns out I like the skeg or rudder I could fabricate one that would be stealth and not mess up the looks of the boat to much. I do not mean to complain about the boat because I really like it. The more I paddle, the more I love it. I am only bringing up my problem with keeping it pointed the way I wanted because if I could solve that.....this boat would be perfect. I also think a lot of that may be the way I was using the boat. I mean, I was on a fast river and in pretty high winds most the time and being a rookie, maybe a lot of it is the way I was paddling. Who knows, but I want to figure it out. Ok, whats really bothering me now is fixing the spot where I rubbed a hole pulling onto boat ramps. Any Ideas on the best way to patch this? Could I glue some fabric over it or should I try sewing some thing over it? What about not patching it but covering it with a teflon or brass strip, screwed on with lots of the Lexel stuff? I want the rub strip but wonder if I need to patch it then add the rub strip or if I could just add the rub strip and it would be the patch too. Thanks *Jay* Quote
Kudzu Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 ....Other boats around me were having the same problems. It did seem like boats with rudders were not having the problems. \That statement tells me a lot. If other boats were having the same problem then it probably is not your boat. Any boat can have problems in certain conditions. If you have a wind blowing and a current in the right combination it could make paddling any boat a struggle. It makes sense that a rudder could overcome that too. If these are normal condition for the race then a rudder is probably a good idea. But if it was just this one year then that another matter. I would spend more time it learning to use leaning to turn it before I added anything. Assuming you didn't make a mistake building it, I think you will find you don't need a skeg. As for patching the boat I have never had to. I have only torn up one and I ruined the skin playing in swift water and hit some really sharp rocks. There was not saving that skin. Being on the keel line it's going to be hard to stitch on a patch. I doubt you could get a needle though at the keel line. Hard to say without seeing it, but if it is a small hole adding a rub strip with Lexel might work. As you learned that is the weak point on these. I never beach mine unless it has a rub strip. I make mine from plastic cutting boards. Their ugly but tough. Hardwoods work fine too. They just wear out and start to look ugly. Not a good photo but this is the one I put on Coy's Firefly. One thing I would do different it round over the edges a bit more. It 'gurgles' a little but it works. Keep the screws below the surface. You want the strip to hit, not the screw heads. Quote
yggmeanhorse Posted October 21, 2011 Author Posted October 21, 2011 Yes, that rub strip is what I had in mind. I think I can fix the hole and add the strip. Then I will take it out and paddle some more and see if I can get used to steering by leaning. I have a few friends that want to paddle it and they know a lot about kayaks so maybe I can get some feed back from them also. Thanks a lot *Jay* Quote
woodman Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Jay I was their at the start of the race when you got into you're boat. I helped you finish launching by lifting the stern off the concrete launch ramp once you got seated... Quote
yggmeanhorse Posted October 23, 2011 Author Posted October 23, 2011 That's really cool. Thanks a lot. What a great time!!! *Jay* Quote
Kudzu Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 If you guys don't care, I am going to save some of these and put on my web site. Jeff Quote
yggmeanhorse Posted October 24, 2011 Author Posted October 24, 2011 Its Ok with me....... Thanks for posting more pictures. Its really cool to see them. Its really cool that you were there and took them. *Jay* Quote
woodman Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 Quite a coincidence that I found this site, and you'r kayak comes from here... How far did you travel from to get to KC.? After building 5 kayaks mostly cedar stripers... now I'm going to build a SOF....got the book a week ago... Quote
P Doug (WA) Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 Woodman, I hope you will do a build thread on here. I'm planning on a build but right now I have two obstetricals to over come, wife and money. I'm working on it though. My wife wants some finish work done in the basement. I figure I can sneak in a sheet of marine plywood and few extra 2 x 4's for a strong back and maybe some cedar for stringers........ withe the material to do the basement. She holds the purse strings... Quote
Kudzu Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 I would love to see someone else build one too. I learn from it. I will probably be starting a new one in a week or two. Got to finish up a couple of end tables first. Then I think I am going to build a new prototype. Quote
River Bend Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 yggmeanhorse, I used a plastic kitchen cutting board, cut it into about %/8" strips, drilled holes and countersunk the screw heads, and they wok out great for rub strips on the keel forward and aft. Quote
yggmeanhorse Posted October 26, 2011 Author Posted October 26, 2011 I live in St. Louis.......actually Florissant MO. I would like to build at least one more SOF kayak then try a wood strip. My problem is room. I really do not have a good place to build a boat. But that did not stop me with the Firefly so I guess I will figure out some thing. I got some teflon strips today to use for rub strips. Hopefully I can put them on Thursday. Cant wait to get this kayak back out.....busy working all this week :-( Quote
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