new to board- CS series questions

[wrutter]

Hello, all. This forum is a great resource and has already been a big help.

Background: Am considering building a small sailboat. Have been primarily a powerboater, but have been around the water most of my life and used many types of smallcraft. Learned to sail (or at least the basics) through formal instruction on Sonar 23's. Feel confident with basic woodworking, reading plans, etc. Have never built a boat of any kind and my only fiberglass experience is fixing minor dings on a surfboard. Have basic woodworking tools at home, a sizable working area, and access to a shop with every woodworking tool imaginable. (brother-in-law is a fine furniture builder, and will probably cringe at what I'd consider acceptable workmanship)

The boat: After a lot of web searching, I think the Core Sound series is for me. Mostly will be daysailing on a small nearby lake, various parts of the Chesapeake, or coastal bays of MD/VA. Have some (90 min. drive) access to marine grade lumber and boat-building supplies at CLC in Annapolis. I do like some of their designs also, but even many of the sailboats seem more rowing oriented with sailing as an afterthought. Will probably be singlehanded (or crew of our black lab) 50% of the time, another adult or teenager 25% of the time, and the whole fam-damily 25% of the time. (2 adults, 2 early teens, and said dog)

Questions: Is there any good reason not to start right out with the CS 20, given all the above. For the 50% of the time I'm alone, it looks like an easy enough rig to handle, but does anyone feel differently? Is the ease or cost of construction significantly different, or is it just "more of the same" as compared to the 15 or 17? The one thing I noticed was the 17 is available as a kit and has a type of "puzzle joint". Does that make the process so much easier for a beginner that its worth considering the 17 since I'll only rarely have more than 2 or 3 aboard? Is seaworthiness of the 17 + 20 comparable? This next may be blasphemy here, but am really not envisioning a lifetime pursuit of building the perfect boat, just want one of this type and thought the project would be neat and something to involve the kids in.

Thanks,

-Bill R.

[hokeyhydro]

Of course you should wait for the experts to chime in, and there are several folks here with Core Sound series knowledge. I have been to B&B Yachts and witnessed the CNC cutting of the CS-17 parts, and also examined the notched joint assembly structure and I love the idea. I have built a couple stitch & glue boats (not CS) and feel the notch alignment will make assembly a ton easier.

For economy and ease of single handing I think a CS-17 would be better. For handling the slop the Chesapeake can create, a CS-20 would have a little edge. I plan to build a CS-15 since I figure my old skinny tail would be able to get a 15 on it's feet should I dump it, and to quote the Master (Graham Byrnes) "The smaller the boat, the bigger the adventure!" Besides, 15' is a convenient fit in my downsized workshop. I dearly miss my old mega garage in VA.

Not sure of your specific location, but Harbour Sales in Baltimore has a marine ply. That's where I would go from my former home in Fairfax County, Va when I stocked up on marine plywood. Course if you get the CS-17 kit, you can shipping ($$$) or drive down to B&B and pick it up along with everything else you need save for frame lumber. B&B has epoxy, glass tape, you name it.

[Slipperhead]

Bill,

I'm almost in the same position as you! I'm from the lower end of the Chesapeake in Poquoson, VA and also hope to ply the bay in much the same way. I haven't even built my boat yet and I'm planning trip from the lower bay up to the mouth of the Susquehanna!

I'm also leaning towards one of the CS series; probably the 17 because of the kit availability.

I've been sailing all my life but have never attempted boat-building. I look at this project as another opportunity to expand my horizons and BUY TOOLS!!! I just received the B&B Flyfisher plans in the mail and am going to warm up with this neat little project first.

Good luck with your CS!

Garland in VA

[MisterMoon]

I've only just purchased my CS-17, so my experience is limited. Coming from a 17' sloop I've found the cat ketch rig is a lot easier to handle and is much less physically demanding than the sloop. Sheeting forces are an order of magnitude lower and it's easier to keep the boat on its feet by playing the main. If rigged per the design it's very easy to single hand. All the sheets are right at hand on from either side of the boat.

If you really think you'll have four plus dog aboard (and the pre-teens will get big, fast!), I think you'd be happier with a CS-20. Three aboard the 17 isn't exactly a crowd. But I'm pretty sure two more bodies is more than I'd want for any period longer than an hour. I've seen a couple of 20's up close and they would handle the larger group much more amiably. I can't imagine the CS-20 is any more difficult to single hand than the 17'er. It's no more complicated to build than either the 15' or 17' versions and cost of going up a size only will add incrementally to the materials. I was really looking for a 20 when I found the 17. I'm still very happy with the smaller boat because it meets most of my needs. The only thing I give up is hauling the whole family for any length of time.

[Charlie Jones]

Having built both a CS 17 and a 20 (and a Princess 22), I'd go for the 17. The 20 is a LOT more boat and much more than you really would need, 75% of the time.

I also have been to B & B and seen the CNC cutting of a CS 17 kit. Even as a pro builder (retired ), I'd recommend that. Will save you LOTS of time, and aggravation.

By the way folks- this is Charlie Jones posting. Had to change my login for some reason.

[wrutter]

Thanks, all.

Think I hear some votes either way on the 17 vs. 20.

Anyone with either of these boats planning on going to Okumefest or other mid-upper chesapeake events this year???

[Ray Frechette Jr]

The 17 and the 20 are very close in feel once you get out in it.

The 20 seems huge at first, but like with all boats it shrinks right down quick in water.

I have built and sailed both.

I find single handing the 20 very comfortable. Only time I really long for an additional crew memeber is in heavier airs when I want to fly the Mizzen staysail.

I am comfortable flying it solo in light air but not after the wind pipes up much above 6-7 knts.

As far as sailing the two the biggest thing your crewmate will notice with the 20 is it gives them more legroom on a starboard tqac in the forward cockpit well. The cockpit well is several inches wider on the 20. Not an issue in aft cockpit well, but welcomed in the forward well on starboard side. Esp if you opt for oar storage alongside the cboard trunk.

Generally you want to have the helmsman sit just aft of the thwartseat and the crew mate just forward of it for optimal fore aft balance of the boat so you don't drag your transom in the water.

Other than that I don't see much difference sailing the two. As far as additional passengers I wouldn't think it would allow more than 2 extra and in heavier winds I wouldn't go more than one extra person. And pretty much I want to be sure they are comfortable confident sailors before I take people out in 18-20 knts of wind regardless.

Pretty much the 20 only has 1.5 feet of extra cockpit length over the 17.

Building the two the 20 requires sizing up your bolts for hardware fittings and heavier duty blocks and rigging. The mast sections are larger diameter and T6 5051 tubing is not cheap.

And you have more square feet of hull and interior to fillet tape and sand and fair so more labor hours there as well.

The mast will also be a bit heavier to step and fit into place.

The 20 of course has a bit more speed potential over the 17.

If it were just for me I would go with the 17 as it pretty much gets you all the 20 has going for it.

My wife on the other side has a a definite preference for the 20. Feels like there is more space and elbow room.

The next boat I build for myself is going to be the Belhaven 19. As an unforseen happy coincidence the sails of the CS 20 are close enough to the sails of the Belhaven so I don't need to buy an additional set of sails for the Belhaven.

I also have 2 sets of sails for my CS 20.

The original sails are battenless hollow roach sails which I use in heavier air or when we are only going for a very short eveneing sail as set up time is much nicer and why bother with battens and all the hassles if the wind is so heavy you are going to be reefed down anyways.

The second set is pretty much full length battens with extended roach that has about 20% more sail area.

The sails also have extra resin in them so they are more crinkly and harder to rig up.

They are very nice to have though in lighter airs.

I originally thought I would sell the battenless sails after getting the new sails but am very happy to keep both sets. Sometimes the battenless are very pleasant to rig and not bother with the battens etc.

[Tom Lathrop]

All these boats balance with movable ballast in the form of crew. Some of us have more ballast than others. Right Ray?

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Yeah, and I carry about 50 lbs less than I used to.

[Charlie Jones]

All these boats balance with movable ballast in the form of crew. Some of us have more ballast than others. Right Ray?

:rolleyes:

Got THAT right Tom.

Ray- on the 20 I built, I did a tabernacle for the main- made it lots easier to step. Of course the Princess has them on both masts, but the 20 mizzen is small enough to not be a problem.

Hey- they are BOTH good boats.