Weekwnder modifications

[Pepe]

Hello

I have spend some time using search and reading old topics about making modifications to make weekender in better trim.

I think I have too mutch weather helm - the pressure in tiller - if I have understand things right. Especially when sailin boat empty and fast. When we had the boat full of gear ( extra batterys etc ) I think it was quite good - at least mutch better. So I found instruction here to reduce the weather helm by bending mast forward and add some ballast in front. I think my mast hinges wound stand bending so it would be easy to make masts lower part with curwed profile.

Now I have the battery (39lb), anchor (11 lb), in front  - and outboard  ( 22 lb ) in back. The mast foot could be made in metal about  (22 lb ). I dont know how mutch these weights matter and woud it be too much just in front of boat. Maby something easier removable could be better.

I have beach trailer and it needs more power to take the boat of the water, than using car trailer ( because car trailer goes under the boat in water ) - so I dont want to put much more weight in the boat.

I'm also doing new rudder hoping that woud help. The one I

[PAR]

Weekender sails better with her bow trimmed down, which is a natural tendency of all sailboats. That is to round up when the boat is trimmed forward. In fact you can steer the boat using this technique. Steping aft in the cockpit will cause the boat to bear away from the wind and moving forward will cause her to head into the wind.

Most reports of weather helm are usually a combinations of different things, most having nothing to do with "actual weather helm". This is a common complaint of the Weekender and other small boats for that matter. Weight placement, including where your butt lands while changing tacks can affect the trim of the boat, which will slightly alter the balance of the boat.

An easy way to check for weather helm is to note the actual position of the rudder, on a to hold a close hauled course, in moderate wind strength, say about 10 knots. The tiller arm, as it comes through the transom hole (or over the transom if you've have changed to a tiller) should have between 3 to 5 degrees of defection to the windward side of the boat. Using a simple protractor you can find the angle the rudder held at, in order to hold a steady course.

If you have more then 5 degrees you may have weather helm. If you have less, then you have other issues.

Poorly trimmed sails can increase the pressure on the helm. Worn out sails or sails that have a poor shape can also increase the helm pressure. Home made sails, particularly poly tarp that have some age or have been in stronger winds will increase helm pressure too.

If you install "tell tails" on the luff of your sails, you'll get a good idea of how well you are controling their shape and your effectivness in set/steering habits.

When the basic trim is right, the tell tails will stream straight aft on both sides of the sail. If you are pointing too high into the wind, the tails that are on the windward side will dance upwards. If the sail is over sheeted or you're sailing too low, the tails will dance upward on the leeward side of the sails.

If sailing to a particular point, then adjust the sheets, but if sailing to the wind then adjust the boat course. A good cut sail will pull the hardest, if the windward side tails are just barely starting to flutter.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Pepe,

There are a few things that you an check as far as helping to determine if there are things with your mast angle that are contributing to "Weather Helm".

On the Weekender, the angle from the front surface of the mast box to the bottom of the boat should be 93 degrees.  You can take your adjustable angle keeper and set one edge on the front of the mast box and the other edge on the bottom or on the top surface of the plywood brace sitting on top of the bottom to hold the mast box inplace.  Tighten it up and then measure the angle with a protractor.  If it is more than 93 degrees the mast is leaning too much towards the aft end of the boat.  This will contribute a great deal to the feeling of a heavy wheel or tiller.  IT will get worse the stronger the wind blows and the more you try to tack into it or go cross wind on a broad reach.

To adjust the mast base to the correct angle, you can cut an angled section off of the back side of the bottom of the mast up to the deck line.  This wedge's angle should be the amount that you want to correct the angle of the entire mast.  For example, if the measurement of the angle is 97 degrees, you would want to cut off a wedge with a 4 degree angle from the back side of the mast base.  Then reattach it to the front of the mast base and you in effect have now created a bent mast that will now be at 93 degrees rather than at 97 degrees.  This will straighten up the mast, moving the top of the mast forward and this will help to lesssen the pressure on the tiller or steering.

One other thing to consider.  The Weekender jib is quite small.  A larger jib will help to balance out the boat very quickly and effectively.  A jib with a foot of about 110" would be called a "Lapper" to many.  It will fill an area larger than the fore triangle from the mast to the bowsprit.  It will also require that you use seperate jib sheets to work with it.  It is most effective in light to moderate wind conditions where it on most Weekenders that I've worked with it will give you a nearly neutral helm to just slightly positive pressure.  In heavier wind conditions, you would not want to use it.  If you would need to reef down your mainsail because of the heavier wind then you would want to go back to the standrd jib to balance the reefed down mainsail.  Under these conditions the boat is quite well balanced with a little positive helm pressure which is good.  Release the tiller or helm and the boat will slowly turn into the wind.

Keeping the bow down into the water will make a huge difference once the mast, sails are tuned for good performance.  You will feel an immediate difference in how it handles and how much pressure is on the helm if you have an adult go forward while underway.  The bow drops down into the water and the Weekender will settle down and feel really solid.  Tacking is now a lot easier because the forefoot and the hard chines now begin to really work in your favor.  When the bow is up, the chines are out of the water and much less effective while trying to tack or reach. 

Try putting a couple of 50# sandbags in the forepeak when you go out.  That 100# forward will make a huge difference in how the Weekender will feel and work.  The pressure on the helm is lessened immediately, the mast is now more upright and it is working with better air flow across the jib as well as the main sail.    Keep the shroud tension tight enough that when you are tacking, the shroud on the lee side shoud just be tight.  The other shroud will be very taut.  Tack in the other direction and check them again, they shoud be just the opposite.  If they feel much different, then you need to adjust them until they are about the same on each heading.  This will help to give you better sail shape too and also lessen the pressure on the helm if all other things are as they should be. 

Just remember, this is a small boat, weight shifts will as Paul stated create an entirely different feel as you move about the boat or have a passenger move about.  Often the best place to have a passenger sit is on the top of the companionway hatch box.  This will keep the weight more centrally located fore/aft. That can make enough of a difference to lessen the pressure on the helm as well. 

  Learning how to shape the sails is also a step to adjusting air flow over the sails and increasing efficiency.  Little tell tails placed in the correct location on either side of the main and the jib will help to learn how to adjust the tension on the sheets and on the foot of either sail to help air flow.  Again this will help to lessen tiller pressure and have a more balanced helm. 

Changing to a different rudder is something that can change the responsiveness of the helm provided the rest of the rig is more or less trimmed to best performance.  If the Weekender is  well balanced the stock rudder will perform just fine.  One with more of a foil shape, if the correct foil, can help in a tack, but don't expect it to cure the helm pressure.  There are too many other things that you need to check first.

[Barry Pyeatt]

This old thread has a world of information that could apply.  It seems to have helped a lot of builders with similar concerns.

http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=3594.30

This is the link to the last page of the discussion.  You may want to go back and read the entire discussion.

[Pepe]

Hi

Intresting reading. My boat is in winter garage about 100 miles away. Have to go there in some weekend and check the mast angle. I remember that I try to be quite accurate when I assembled the mastbox. I made 93 degree gauge with plywood and used it. But there can still be some degree error - have to check that. I watch my photos and maby the mast is bend backwards little in hinges.

I read Franks post and he said that his boats boom was obove his head when sitting in cocpit. The pictures with his mail had vanished somewhere. My boom is in quite same line with my shoulders. And the boom is quite same line with cabin roof.

The sails are maid with orginal plans with professional sailmaker. But when I measured the jib it is little smaller than in plans. I havent check the mainsail yet. The clubfoot seems to be little too short too? - or I have misteken with measures.  Here are some pictures for boom line and tiller postion when sailing. The pictures are taken in front so - its not the same situation than sitting in cocpit.

[capt jake]

My battery that I had forward finally gave up last fall.  A large Gp 31.  I do not plan on replacing it, so I have to cast a large weight to fit in the battery box, to replace the missing weight.

[Frank Hagan]

Mast angle could be it.  The photo of your Weekender beached shows a nearly level trim with the mast raked back quite a bit ... I'll bet you're 4 degrees or more angled back.  Barry's idea about measuring the angle, and cutting a wedge off the aft end of the lower portion of the mast stub is probably the best solution. 

She's a great looking boat, by the way! 

[Pepe]

Thanks

That's what I

[Pepe]

I checked the mast angle yesterday and it was 94 degrees. "Only"  one degree too much. It could be bended backwards in hinges on degree too? Who knows?

Then I checked the sail dimensions. The lowest side ,which comes to boom is not cut like strait line,but it

[Pepe]

Hello

Old topic, but I test the new mast angle and rudder. Have to say that now the boat works really good. Just little pressure in tiller. I dont want to reduce it no more. Even I hade no battery in front.

I was yesterday sailing on really good wind - or quite big to my skills. Normally I would take on reef down, but there were 2 more light sailing boat in same lake so that was no guestion - it was race!

And I was funn! the best sailing I ever hade made! Going quite fast and learned to trusht the boat.

When the race was going my jib