capt jake Posted February 19, 2003 Posted February 19, 2003 I will be setting my tiny portlights with silicone. They consist of a bronze external trim ring, lexan and an internal wooden trim ring. How best to clean off the 'ooze' around everything?? I am especially concerned about the Lexan.. Thoughts?? Quote
Tim Diebert Posted February 19, 2003 Posted February 19, 2003 Jake Old Chap. Silly Cone has no place on a boat...and you in the middle of paint and varnish!! Tisk tisk. Toss that stuff and get ye some polysulphide of some description. Boatlife, Sikaflex or 5200... whatever. Cleans up with regular thinners, so it won't effect the finish below. Take it from a chap that has bedded hundreds of fittings on boats of all descriptions. Quote
capt jake Posted February 19, 2003 Author Posted February 19, 2003 I am planning on applying this after the paint. Polysulfides, etc are opaque?? Correct?? I am sealing the 'clear Lexan, or Lucite, or whatever I have an abundance of, with the rings to the finished painted surfaces.... Abundantly claer... right?? Quote
Guest EdWoerle Posted February 20, 2003 Posted February 20, 2003 Try these tricks: Start by taking masking tape and puting it around the outer circumfrence of the item (the outside of the hole). Then completely cover the lexan/plastic/glass with masking tape. Place the plastic in the opening, and trace around the edge. Remove the plastic, use your x-acto knife to trim the masking tape to the line. Put on your latex gloves. Put a bead of your chosen caulk [i, too, prefer the polysulfides] in place, allowing for A BIT of squeeze out. Put the plastic in place, secure the ring or other security device, and lightly wipe the squeeze out with your GLOVE CLAD finger. Wipe it off on a handy rag or paper towel. Allow the sealant to set up for approximately 15-20 minutes. With the tip of your knife, carefully lift an edge of the masking tape, and you'll be able to remove the remainder of the tape. If you've been careful there should be no mess to deal with. If you have left over "sticky", or tape residue from tape you've left in place too long, try using either golf club grip tape solvent, available from most golf supply stores or pro shops, or trim adhesive remover available from auto supply stores. Wal Mart has some, also. I have used this technique for almost half a century(!) installing windows and windshields in General Aviation aircraft. Pay attention to what you're doing and you shouldn't have any trouble. As an aside, I've found that silicone has a tendency to shrink after a while. I hope this is graphic enough to let you figure it out. Ed in Memphis Quote
capt jake Posted February 20, 2003 Author Posted February 20, 2003 Thanks to all. Silli Off, I have never seen; I will hae ot look for it. Sounds geat!! Others say Polysulfide. Is it avilable in a clear solution?? A brand name would help! Tim suggested 5200... No, too aggressive adhession!! TIM!!?? :) LOL; You silly luthier!!! :) Why do I have a noticable line on my fretboard (fretboard to neck)? It wasn't there when I finished it. It is definitely there now. :? Quote
Frank Hagan Posted February 20, 2003 Posted February 20, 2003 Seems to me I have seen clear 3M 4200, or clear BoatLife brand polysulfide caulk. But Ed's method sounds the best to me ... and I know you could pull it off with your attention to detail (I, however, would still end up with the stuff in my underwear). Quote
Tim Diebert Posted February 20, 2003 Posted February 20, 2003 My favorite is Sikaflex...when I can't get Boatlife. I am sure it is NOT available in clear...but what do I know? The idea is own the colors that match your surfaces that you will be bedding to. On anything through bolted I use a cotton wicking on bolts before bedding...below the water line use a wicking for sure. Silicone has no place on a boat IMHO. You will find most boat builders (or any wood workers for that matter) will run you off their property if you are found using it. It contaminates a surface and does not allow for surface films to cure properly. I have seen fish eye and cratering (severe) just from a trace (from a finger tip) of silicone on a surface I was finishing. And you can't just hope the next coat will be fine...you have to strip what finish is on there and even resand the wood (if that is what is contaminated). Fun. For this reason you should never spray Armourall (or like products)on anything that may be near a surface that might be finished one day. The old shipwright I used to work for would yell at boat owners that brought the stuff into the shop. Old Ron was not a mellow dude. I watch him come close to throwing a boat owner (his client, a judge no less) into the drink off the work float one day. My co-worker got there first and subdued the old bugger. (Ron was almost 80 at the time and could do a full days corking(Caulking)...and beat most 40 years old in an arm wrestle.) Ed's advice is perfect...minimize the sqeeze out with masking tape, scoop up most of it then wipe the rest with a rag and light thinners. Jake. All your fitting added to the boat (cleats, pad eyes, cannons, radar) should be bedded in a proper material...NOT SILICONE. Your fingerboard. DOAH silly silly fellow. Simple shrinkage my friend. Both the neck wood and fingerboard NEED to be quartersawn. All my wood spends a good deal of time in my climate controlled storage room so that every single piece on every guitar is the same EMG before construction. Some call it seasoning. Equilibrium Moisture Content. It is as dry as it is ever going to get in THAT environment. Ideally...you should have stored (or seasoned) for a year or so) your (perfect edgegrain)material in the very room that guitar was to spend it's evenual days. Then all would be perfectness. :angel: If your neck still fits the pocket...or close enough, just resand and re-fair the neck...may need some fret ends re-done as well. Hopefully it is not too severe. You can call me anytime you need to know anything about this stuff. Numbers on my website. Quote
Guest EdWoerle Posted February 20, 2003 Posted February 20, 2003 Capt. Almostperfect... If you're careful and get a neat bead, you don't have to worry what color. In fact, a dark color can look quite complementary. I use a dark polysulfide on aircraft, and the bead is almost invisible. Ed Quote
Tim Diebert Posted February 20, 2003 Posted February 20, 2003 Have you got a fav compound Ed? You use that two part stuff? Thiocol That stuff if wonderful for decks. Agreed on the contrasting color plan. Done that too. I guess 50 years of doing this has taught you a few things eh? I was brought up in the airforce...Dad was an airframe mech for a while...ended up flight engineer on 707's. I miss the smell of a hanger. I heard Sika came up with a deck seam compound...in a tube. I gotta get some of that for some hatches I am building....or I should say will be building.....soon. Quote
Guest EdWoerle Posted February 20, 2003 Posted February 20, 2003 Check places like aircraftspruce.com. Their 2.5 oz kit "A" of Pro-Seal 890, p/n 09-38500, sells for $18.00. It is actually a fuel tank/aerodynamic sealer, but is great for our purposes. Since it is shelf-life limited, you MIGHT be able to find some expired stuff for less dollars. Just remember, this stuff is worst than polyurethane glue on you hands. Once on, it's there until the skin decides to change itself. I don't know, there may be a generic equivalent on the market, but since I work on airplanes I use the real stuff. Other places to look: Wag-Aero, Chief Aircraft, Varga, Cooper Aviation Ed PS...I'm getting ready to install a window in a Cessna 172. I might do some pics of the process and post them here and on BYYB forums. Although the vehicle is different the technique is the same. Quote
Guest EdWoerle Posted February 20, 2003 Posted February 20, 2003 Tom... If you can find some inexpensive Thiocol, go for it. It's all strong as hell, doesn't shrink, is chemical resistant and paintable. A drawback is that it can take forever to set up in extremely cold temps. A heatlamp works wonders, though. Quote
High C Posted February 20, 2003 Posted February 20, 2003 I'll second the "NO SILICONE on a boat" advice. And don't use 5200 on anything that you may EVER want to undo in the future. The stuff is permanent, and will destroy whatever it's attached to before letting go. Quote
Tim Diebert Posted February 20, 2003 Posted February 20, 2003 It has been 15 years since I worked (for a living) on boats...other than building my own and fixing my own that is....I have never used 5200, I just assumed it was a bedding compound, not an adhiesive. Thanks for telling me. That pictorial essay would be cool Ed. (Plus we get to see airplanes ) Good advice on the product names etc. Anything aircraft related is always the best stuff. Sikaflex is a pretty common item from most chandlers I would suspect. Although, being a dry lander (lake sailer)these days I have to mail order all that stuff. Hey Nelson T....anybody in sunny Spokane sell good polysulphides? I get down there now and again. Quote
capt jake Posted February 20, 2003 Author Posted February 20, 2003 OK, I have a small tube of 4200, white, that I was going to use for the cleats and hardware. Is this the stuff to use for sealing the portlights??? Maybe if I posted a picture fo the configuration?? I think you all have a good idea of what I am doing though. Quote
Tim Diebert Posted February 21, 2003 Posted February 21, 2003 So it was 4200 is was using. OK then. ...and they make a clear? How nifty is that? Quote
capt jake Posted February 21, 2003 Author Posted February 21, 2003 NO No No, they don't make it clear, though it would suit this situation better. Only white from what I have found. But the question is... is this suitable for this application?? If you ask West or?? They tell you silicone, so I want to know the truth. On the WBF somebody mentioned the PL brand line, and that there is a product there that is suitable for this. Ya know it has to be cheaper than 3M or anything else that says 'boat'! This little tube of 4200 was $4!! Thoughts??? Quote
Tim Diebert Posted February 21, 2003 Posted February 21, 2003 West? WHo's west? I recomend that you use silcone Jake. It is lovely stuff. I am most fond of the scent...and the lubrication properties. After you bed your portlites with it use a little to put under your strings at the nut. Your guitar will stay in tune better. Quote
capt jake Posted February 21, 2003 Author Posted February 21, 2003 recomend that you use silcone Jake. It is lovely stuff. I am most fond of the scent...and the lubrication properties. Excellent recommendation!! Alas, I have been here long enough to know that it isn't a true 'recommendation'........... later....... sorry, I am a little hyper sensative lately. Sorry. Quote
Tim Diebert Posted February 21, 2003 Posted February 21, 2003 Jake....my wife (Daphne)said I have to play nice. High C. So you are the guy that bought Mr. Kershaws boat. You and I are almost related then. I didn't build mine either. How is it going so far? Quote
capt jake Posted February 21, 2003 Author Posted February 21, 2003 Does that mean she doesn't like silicone either??? Or just you don't, or maybe I should not say anything more?? :D Quote
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