Lapwing a new design.

[Designer]

While building the EC22 Tom confessed that he wanted to build a lapstrake sail boat around 15 '6" long. We had many hours to kick around ideas for her. She will be basically like the CS15 in rig and layout.

[Tom Lathrop]

I think the Lapwing (named by birdwatcher mate Liz, of course) is going to be very handsome and a great addition to Graham's design portfolio. My main request was in the length of the boat, that it be a cat ketch and that it should sail as well and be as stable as the Core Sound series. I am very happy with how it is turning out and look forward to getting to work. It will be a few months to start serious work due to lots of jobs that have built up.

[Dale Niemann]

Tom/Graham,

She looks great in the design pictures. I will be looking forward to progress photos and descriptions.

Tom, tell us why you picked 15' 6" and not 17'.

I presume she will be glued lap. Is this correct?

Dale

[Tom Lathrop]

Dale,

This boat is intended as a daysailer for singlehanding. I built one of the first BRS15's and found it to be plenty large enough for me. When you read the accounts on Graham's website of what has been done with my boat after I sold it, you will see just what is possible in that size boat. The CS17 is a pretty large boat, much larger than I need at this point. With the enhancements Graham included in the CS15 (as optimized for sailing) relative to the BRS15, I though this would be plenty large enough.

Why 15.5' instead of 15'? Well, I thought that with the lapstrake form, we could draw out the bow with a bit more rake and make it more attractive. I also wanted to use a tabernacle on the mainmast and the extra 6" gave more room forward inside the raked bow for that. We also included a curved transom and some tumblehome for the same reason. I was a little concerned about stability but the numbers look good relative to the CS. A bit less initial stabililty but gains more as the rounded sections become immersed. The only negative of the extra 6" is that an extra scarf will be needed for the upper strakes. By this time I hope all here have lost all fear of scarfing plywood. No big deal.

Also, I am starting to think that I may be getting older and just maybe I need a less demanding boat. The rig is essentially identical to the CS15.

It will take more set up and building effort but I intend to enjoy that also.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

I hope we are talking glued lapstrake and not S&G multi panels. I find the finishing time of mulit chine S&G negates any time savings over initial construction of glued lapstrake. Besides being more beautiful, glueg lap can also be very light. Pretty renderings. Looks like Graham is spending a lot of time at the computer doing design work...now that the EC is over. :wink:

[Tom Lathrop]

Joe,

My Lapwing will definitely be glued lap. Wouldn't consider anything else at this point. I will build over a molded jig with ribands somewhat like Tom Hill's method but not exactly. The interior will be non traditional and will follow the one worked out for all Graham's boats. It's a great layout and I like it better than any other. It will not have an aft deck since I much prefer easy access to the transom. There will be no coaming on the side deck for comfort but will have a coaming/splash rail on the forward end of the cockpit.

[Steve Day]

Guys,

That looks like a very nice design. The glued lapstrake design gives the boat a "traditional" look that I like.

After building the cradle last winter, I am not as afraid of making the ends of the laps join.

You folks may have another winner here. I will watch this project with great interest as it develops.

Steve

[Dale Niemann]

Tom,

Thanks for your commentary on the lapwing. I took a class from Tom Hill a long time ago. His method seemed like a good one.

Upon a second look at the design pictures it appears from looking at the transom that it will be lap from the keel up. Is this right?

I am having the same thoughts you have about the 17 now that I am almost done with mine. I have been building it so long, Graham only had the 17 when I ordered the plans. I will be single handing it most of the time. I guess I will find out soon enough. If it is too big, I can always build a lapwing.

Thanks,

Dale

[Charlie Jones]

one additional point on the baot size. 15'6" here in Texas falls JUST within the Class A size. If you were to go to 16 feet, the cost for registration jumps a lot. I feel sure there are other places with similar sizes breaks, so the 15'6" should do well from that regard.

I LOVE the looks. One of my all time favorite little boats is the Urchin at 11'5" with her two plank sides- the Lapwing has the same flavor.

[Tom Lathrop]

Tom' date='

Upon a second look at the design pictures it appears from looking at the transom that it will be lap from the keel up. Is this right?

Thanks,

Dale[/quote']

I'm not exactly sure what you mean Dale but the garboard does go on first and the rest of the strakes shingle down in normal fashion after the hull is righted. Some lapstrake planing powerboats do invert the laps on the bottom and change over at the bilge strake. The idea is that this works as small "steps" for ventilating the bottom.

[Howard]

Have still (!!) not had a chance to sail a cat ketch rigged boat, but it hasn't escaped my notice that even with such a relatively small boat, you are still going with the cat ketch, vs. a single stick. You must be sold on the rig.

Is there a reason for the cat ketch vs. a single mast, even for this small of a boat? Aesthetics? Performance? Both? To be clear, I'm not questioning your choice, just trying to learn more about the rig.

(You will notice in my info section, reference to the Montgomery 17. Also a lap strake hull and it turns heads. When traveling, I get approached by folks at gas stations just wanting to look at it. On land, on water, folks notice them. They have a traditional salty look that also results in a strong stiff hull. Needless to say, I like it!)

[Tom Lathrop]

Howard,

In case you have not read it, go to: http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/catketch.htm

and read the reasons we like the cat-ketch rig. I have raced sailboats for many years, in sloops almost exclusively, so I understand them pretty well. As the article explains, sloop rigs have some advantages over cat-ketches primarily from the rating rule which does not tax overlapping jibs as highly as the other sails per square foot of area. Freestanding masts also fare poorly since they cannot support a tight jib luff as well as a stayed mast if one is installed.

Nevertheless, I have occasionally raced in my BRS15 with the local Laser fleet and have beaten a few of them.

For a daysailer, I have settled on the cat-ketch as a preferred rig for all the reasons given plus a couple more. I remember an instance following a round Carrot Island race at Beaufort with Carla Byrnes as crew. We were waiting to be lifted out at an overhead winch which was downwind. The wind was about 15kts or quite brisk. I rolled the main up on the mast as normal for docking. There was a problem on the lift and I had to get away. I found that the cat-ketch BRS would actually make ground upwind on the mizzen alone. Don't know if you are supprised, but I was.

When the slip was clear, I unclipped the mizzen sheet, the sail weathercocked and we eased into the slip. I could rig, launch and get underway in that rig in a small fraction of the time taken by small sloops of similar size. When it comes down to it, the real reason I prefer the cat-ketch is far greater ease of handling and seamanship. The fact that it is hard to see any loss in performance, is just gravy.

We are planing to sail Southern Skimmer in some local fun PHRF races and expect to kick some butt. 'Nuff said.

[Dale Niemann]

Tom,

What I was trying to ask was will Lapwing have a flat bottom of one large piece of plywood or will the whole hull be of the rounded hull/bilge design? In other words will there be laps on the bottom or hard chine with them only on the topsides?

Thanks,

Dale

[Tom Lathrop]

I believe it is a true round hull design' date=' not a flat bottom.[/quote']

Yep.

[Designer]

I agree with every thing that Tom said about the rig and add a couple more. I blessed the rig many times during the EC for its ability to heave-to and the ability to back the main when missing a tack.

While tacking into Flamingo at 3:00 am in very gusty winds we ran aground several times. After running aground the boat would fall off the wind as all boats do but we just eased the main and pushed the sprit out until the main backed and around we would go. Sloops will typically just sail you further aground because you no longer have enough speed to turn the boat up into the wind enough to be able to back the jib.

I cannot make a sloop with a modern underbody heave-to for more than a few seconds. The ability to heave-to to me is a very important safety feature especially when single handing.

[edt]

Graham/Tom,

What is the projected weight of this boat - if built light?

Thanks

Ed

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

This may be elementary to a lot of you...but to make the boat tack faster you loosen the main (make the course change with the rudder, then loosen the main sheet) while it passes head to wind. This lessens the force on the front of the sail plan and makes it easier for the boat to pass head to wind. Then tighten it again after it you are past head to wind. The main will now pull you downwind. Boat will loose less speed and you can come up after you regain speed for tighter pointing. I got good at this when tacking up a very narrow channel when I didn't have any auxiliary power. You can also back your mizzen when you miss a tack to get out of irons.

[Mr_Krabs]

bump

any lapwing news? :?:

[Tom Lathrop]

To kick in on the weight of the Lapwing, I have built several sailboats of 15' 6" LOA. All have come in at under 200 lbs. My BRS "Loon" was heavier but it was built take a 10hp motor and plane.

I am thinking that the Lapwing can be under 220 lbs but Graham may have a better idea on that.

We are both busy with other things right now and Graham wants to cut the molds with the new CNC machine when it gets here. Somebody has to be the beta model.

[edt]

I have plans for the Phoenix III from duckworks. Its about 15+ feet long, 4 foot beam, glued lapstrake and comes out to about 150lbs. I've built a birder II and like Graham's designs and had no trouble following the plans.

Its probably a stupid question, but will lapwing plans include panel shapes for the planks or will they have to be worked out on the fly? In my case, due to space restrictions, it would be much easier to precut the planks - even if they had to be trimmed later.

I have slowly been reorganizing my garage preparing for a fall build. Lapwing could be an interesting alternative.

Thanks

Ed Tomlinson