CK17 compared to CS17

[mustangermatt]

Oh, forgot about the seagull jibes.

The holding power of a seagull on muddy bottom is about the same as that everrude of yours, just easier to retrieve. And I always recommend 5' to 10' feet of chain ;-)

[smacrae]

Yeah, Tom, and all you have to do is send your bank account details to the brother of the Nigerian finance minister to receive your prize....!

Thanks for the oar length, Irish. I guess, regardless of formulae, the "best" length will be somewhat subjective. Once Graham sends me my plans I can actually build the boat and find out for myself. Keen to see how she goes at sculling. Surely one oar will be easier to stow??

As for this ridiculous notion of your bog dwelling ancestors first "peopling" Oz, it was the Poms who reckoned they did that. Your mob was brought out in chains to do the heavy lifting (and, quite possibly, the rowing). You certainly weren't considered "people". Just wasn't done, old boy. Of course, the Poms also considered the place "terra nullius", so there you go.

BTW as a linguist and regular poster, you would no doubt agree that "Is buaine port n

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

I will sum up Mertens for you...he is the WalMart of boat designers. He plagiarises existing designs and converts them the S&G. His boats never go through a process of evoluton...once drawn, thats good enough. Mistakes are found on most designs. He then blames problems on "ameteur builders". Mistakes are slow to be corrected. His designs are never tested prior to release. I for one would never build without the testimonials of many builders and sucessful sea trials. Every once in a while he hits a home run. But he is typically a low percentage batter.

Graham's boats are unique, follow a theme and each one plays on the success of the last...while exitbiting new qualities of her own. I would (and have) place(d) my bets on Graham's boats. Graham is the Berry Bonds of boat designers. Gotta wonder if he takes steroids? Maybe the Congress should investigate him for abuse. They dont seem to have anything better to do.

[jyow]

To anyone trying to decide whether or not to build a CS 17 or CS 20, I say do it! Charlie Jones built my CS 17 and besides being beautiful, it sails wonderfully. It can be gentle enough to take my 5 year old daughters out and fast enough to run down some much larger boats. Last weekend I felt a surge of speed and looked at my GPS. It showed 7.5 knots, so I must have started planing. It is a wonderful boat!!!

John Yow

CS 17 #102

[JeffM]

Ahem... In case anyone has forgotten, Australia was peopled about 40,000 years before either the Irish or the Poms (is that Aussie for "criminal?") showed up!

[mustangermatt]

Excellent point, it is way too easy to fall into the American train of thought that we think we own everything. :oops:

As far as my family being criminals, you bet ya. Transported in 1854 and proud to be a thorn in the side of the crown. :-)

If I had my druthers on the oar length, I might go as long as 9'. But used as auxiliary power, 8' works great, and alot cheaper.

I think even the coresound 17 is a bit largeish for sculling in any kind of breeze.

If oar stowage is really a big concern, there have been some good solutions on this board. Racks along the centerboard trunk, tubes through bulkheads, or hangers under the side decks. I just throw mine in the bilge because there is alot more room in the boat than you would think, and even with six people they don't get in the way there. If it ain't broke, don't fix it :-)

[Charlie Jones]

well, I don't know about largish- the Pardey's scull their 30 footer ;D

And I know people who can scull larger boats. Actually once you get it moving, sculling can work on most any boat of reasonable size. It's a trick more should learn.

When I was a kid hanging around the marinas, dock hands would scull work floats all over the harbor and some of them were BIG. Most were just rectangular floats. They sculled from what ever side was convenient, with no special notches, row locks or anything- just an oar laid over the edge.

In fact, two years ago I watched this guy scull backwards from his slip, then scull the boat to where he could make sail. He sailed around inside the anchorage, then dropped sail and put her back into the slip using the scull. The boat has no engine at all.

The place is Roberts Bayou, behind Pirates Cove, in Josephine Alabama. The boat was later sunk in a hurricane.

[mustangermatt]

I'll be more specific, too large for ME to scull :-)

[smacrae]

Ahem... In case anyone has forgotten, Australia was peopled about 40,000 years before either the Irish or the Poms (is that Aussie for "criminal?") showed up!

and it wasn't until 1992 that the "terra nullius" legal convention that "allowed" the Poms to take over was declared invalid. Hell, aborigines were protected under the Fauna and Flora Act until 1967!

Although it may seem as this has strayed far from the topic, it actually hasn't: it's classed as putting one's oar in the water.

BTW, "pom" was originally"POHM" which was stencilled on the back of a convict's shirt. Meant "prisoner of his majesty". Now it refers to any limey (as I think you septics call them)

Steve

[mustangermatt]

Charlie, I have started to wonder if sculling is more prominant on the south coast. I haven't travelled down that way but as I think about it I have never seen anyone sculling a boat up here in the northwest except at wooden boat shows.

Sounds like I should come down to see what else I am missing :-)

[Charlie Jones]

Can't say about the left coast- only was there twice, once in 1948 as a 7 year old and once in 1958 courtesy of the USN.

But all over the northeast and down the eastern seaboard, sculling is or was a well practiced art. Also in the Bahamas. There was a two part article in the old Small Boat Journal ( before it got murdered) on sculling.

I've often sculled a canoe or small aluminum skiff from the bow, while fishing- I use a paddle held in one arm to do it and dapped with a cane pole with the other. Or sculled along a bank while Laura fished.

I think I have that article saved- have to see. If so I can maybe post it so every one can see. SBJ is long dead so it shouldn't violate any copywrite stuff.

[lsearle]

At the end of a long hard week, i have just stumbled across this posting.I am as irish as any australian not ashamed of he convict stain.I can give it to you in gaelic if you care .I just want to apoligise to my American friends . Not all Australians are so ignorant. I remember Midway. Out here we call Queensland DEEP NORTH. My web address is at PROFILE .The forum is for boats.

[ck 17]

As a owner/builder of a CK 17 I can agree on some of what was said here. The boat does have a lee helm in light air. as the windspeed increases as well as the heel of the boat then the helm seems to go more neutral.  I'm not sailing the southern ocean in the thing so it doesn't seem to be too big of a problem. Mertens suggests putting a reef in the main as wind speed approaches the upper teens. In this configuration with the sails adjusted properly there is a slight weather helm.

I picked the design because of all the room. I had big plans to do some extensive camping sailing and this design seemed to be a good compromise of the stowage/simple rigging/easy to build/easy to sail requirment that I had.

As far as Mertens himself goes, all I can say is he and his staff have always been there on the other end of the phone for advice. great customer service. His philosiphy seems to be minimal hardware (which can break).

I now have moved to an area with a lot more water, much of which is shallow. I'm considering modifying the boat to a c/b or adding a pin or clamp device to the dagger board to that it can be lifted and locked as the water shallows. However, I might do nothing. Currently with the kick-up dagger board trunk, when I contact the bottom, the board angles then slides up as much as required. As the boat moves back into deeper water, the board drops back down. Come to think of it, thats exactly what a c/b does.