nav lights on P22?

[john_manchester]

I'm trying to figure out what I need to plan on for navigation lights on my Princess and starting to get confused and depressed. Can you guys help me out?

If I'm doing my RRR right, the P22 is < 7m LOA (<22.9'). So according to the USCG regs I don't really NEED anything except a spotlight to light up my sails in time to avoid a collision. However, the wording is something like you "should" mount the proper lights on a boat <7m if it's "practicable". I don't get it--is this should like "you should brush after meals", or like "you should replace the drain plug after changing your oil"?

I'm inclined to install the proper lights in either case, since it will make me feel like I know what I'm doing, but I also don't want to spend a fortune. You can get a bicolor light for 10 bucks, and a matching stern light for the same, but I'm not sure where to mount them. Would it be a bad idea to mount a bicolor on the main mast just at the hinge in the tabernacle? Or would it be better to mount separate lights on the rail? What's the best option for a stern light?

If I mount a single all-around light atop the main mast, can it double as the anchor and steaming light? If so, could I mount that light instead on the mizzen?

[Designer]

John,

There are several issues in your questions. First is compliance with the law and the second is staying alive.

I think that being seen with the proper lights will allow other boats to treat you with the respect that you need and deserve rather than whether you are above or below 7 meters.

When under sail you will need a port and starboard and a stern light. Under power you will need the above plus a stern light. As most small sailboats have limited power, a tricolor makes a lot of sense by burning one bulb for three lights. Under power you need a white steaming light. Because you are under 12 meters you can have tricolor at the top of the main mast and a steaming light mounted further down the mast. Or you can get tricolor with an all around white light which can you can get away with as a steaming light or anchor light. The down side is that they look bulky on your very slim mast head and may be vulnerable when the mast is down.

A better way might be a bicolor about a third of the way up the mast and a stern light at the stern and accept running two bulbs. You still need a steaming light when you are under power, an all around light at the top of the mast will double as a steaming and stern light and can be used as an anchor light. You will still need a separate stern light when under sail or you will be telling every one that you are a power boat.

[Greg Luckett]

Be aware that the Great Lakes have some variences as do most inland waterways which are state controled.....re. nav lighting. I suggest you check the latest Chapmans edtion and the local regulations where you will be sailing.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Anyone know a good source for inexpensive bi-color and stern LED nav lights? The west marine ones are about $200, which is rediculous. I got a set of LED tail lights for my trailer for $20 a piece. The power draw with LED sure does reduce the problems of power storage and recharging on a small boat!!!

[john_manchester]

Thanks Graham, that's very helpful. I got the idea from my reading of the regs that the steaming light had to be at least a meter above the nav lights, and so a tricolor light couldn't be used while under power. This one's still 80 bucks but looks like it will completely solve the problem: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|65136|295769|320396|320405&id=64433. Although you're right that it'll probably be a bit ugly.

I like your idea about separate bicolor, stern and steaming/anchor. However I think I have to keep the masts clear since it looks like I'll be using rope loops (maybe with wood beads to help prevent binding, was going to ask you about this when I get closer) to attach the sails for the first season or two. I keep reminding my wife the boat's better than a girlfriend, but she nonetheless meets my expenditures with increasing scrutiny...

For cheap lights maybe this will help--there are a couple of sites that sell LED "replacement bulbs" to fit most applications. These guys for example claim their bulbs are as bright or brighter than the incandescent bulbs (but with much lower draw): http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm.

[Greg Luckett]

John,

Try Duckworths. They have some nice lights for a good price too.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/electrical/index.htm

[Kudzu]

John, here is another point to further confuse the matter. Keep night vision in mind. I am an avid boater, both power and sail. Nav lights that are in your line of site can take away from your night vision. So look close at the lights and the placement of lights. Make sure they are not going to shine on a white or light colored deck. You will be amazed at how bright they can be at night!

On my Sea Skiff I replaced the all around white light on the flag pole because it cast way to much light in the boat and reflected off the glass windsheild. I went with a small light that mounted on the transom and another that completed the 360 requirement mounted on a pole on the windshield 12" above the top. What I didn't foresee was how much light it cast on the white Natolex bow. It practically blinded me at night. I solved that problem but it was a valuable lesson.

When I build my CS-20 I am going to with bow lights that mount below the deck. Have not decided on the white light yet. But I am leaning toward transom mount to keep as much light out of the cockpit as possible. Then a mast mounted white for motoring.

Also consider any lines that might be near the lights. Even small lights are good at catching lines.

[john_manchester]

Duckworks is great--they have the Seadog 10-buck lights I was hoping to use, but was confused about where to mount. For around $30 it would be possible to spoof a tricolor light by mounting the cheap bicolor and the stern light both near the top of the main mast, with a separate cheapo all-around steaming/anchor light at the very top. But then there's 3 bulbs to burn, and would it look OK during they day? Or does it really matter how it looks.

Either way it's sounding like the top of the main mast it the best bet. So since I'll have to run wires up anyway, it brings me to another question...

You guys worry at all about lighting protection? Or can you avoid the danger by paying attention to the weather and/or dropping the masts if you get caught by surprise?

[Greg Luckett]

I worry about lightening a lot and there is no way to outrun those storms in a sail boat. Sometimes I drink medicinal brandy and howl at the storm, sort of like that guy on Forest Gump, but most of the time I cower in the cabin or under something. There is a lot of debate over whether to use lightening protection or not. I try to hang chain or heavy cable over the side and attached to the standing rigging. I have seen boats that had lightening protection and ones that did not which were damaged as badly. Lightening varies in strength and if you get hit with a heavy bolt, then nothing will help. There are a lot of weaker bolts blowing around the heavy strikes and those are what most people get hit with. Just my opinion and experiences.

[Designer]

John,

If you use rope instead of slides on a track, how are you going to get the rope loops by the sprit and snotter? I would rather that you make your economies elsewhere. Typically there is no extra cost for the slides on the sail when it is made, so it will cost you more to add them later.

With regard to lightning protection, I am a believer. In the marine surveying side of my business I have seen quite a bit of lightning damage over the years and the worst damage is on unprotected boats or protected boats that are out of the water. Protected boats usually have minor damage such as fried electronics.

While there are no guarantees with any system, the chances of being hit by a minor strike are high and even a marginal system should prevent those. My first order is to protect the crew and if you save the boat, that is a bonus.

The Coast Guard strongly recommends lightning protection.

[Norman Colter]

I am nearing this point myself. I think I'd like to run wires inside the mast for nav lighting. Am I asking for lightning trouble? How do I best ground a wooden boat with wooden masts? Anyone?

Norm

[Greg Luckett]

Ray,

I agree with your comments completely, except maybe for one thing.  I always want good nav lights as my planning to avoid the dark does not always work out.  Fog is another problem, though not a common one here where I live on Lake Michigan.  When sailing Galveston Bay, it was common.  Another thing I like is a LOUD horn to sound Collision while I am trying to avoid the idiots with power boats.

[Norman Colter]

See Lightening protection thread.

http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=5936.0

I have decided to use an all around light at the top of the main mast, and a combination light a meter below the top of the main mast. And a stern light at the top of the mizzen.

My Chapman suggests twisting wires to avoid creating a magnetic field that may influence the compass.

Any thoughts on that?

http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=5976.0

Thanks, Norm

[JeffM]

I have the duckworks portable LEDs.  No wiring.  And they live off the same AA batteries as my gps--and I always carry a double-handful of those.  The lights live in the locker most of the time, out of harms way.  Downside is they're not as bright as most bulbs.  Mine are used often, since I sail at night rather more often than I probably should (leaving me to feel my way into unfamiliar anchorages).  I tried to use a kerosene lantern for anchoring, a la Shoal Waters, but the mast top moves too much and leaves the chimney too sooty.  Now the LED stern light gets reoriented to the vertical and clamps to my cabin top to become an anchor light.

Re: lightning protection, see the long thread and excruciatingly comprehensive "lightening protection" thread last active Jan 27.