wood masts

[Kudzu]

Looking at the CS 20 very seriously. Seems to be just the boat I am looking for. Being a wood boat nut I have a problem with aluminum masts on such a pretty boat. I found an interesting article on here in the archives on wood and aluminum masts last night.

What I am wondering is if anyone has a made a wooden mast that they were happy with? If so how was the weight and was it manageable setting it by yourself?

My concern is to get a stiff enough unstayed wood mast that weight may become an issue for an over weight middle aged man to set by himself. As much as I dislike the look of aluminum masts on wood boats it may be the better choice in this application.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

I had the same thoughts a year or so ago. The problems with wood are;

It is an inexact material. Calculating mast bend and purchasing sails that are cut to each mast is problematic. Wood masts pose woodworking skills that a lot of us dont have. The weight aloft is higher.

These boats are designed for ameteurs to build. The core sounders are also high performance boats. I believe these are the reasons for going with aluminum masts. Remember, all boat desings are a compromise of features. Where these boats depart from tradition, they make up for it in performance and ease of building.

One guy we know of made wood masts. He found them to be too soft and the bend was exagerated. A lot of work to go through to find that a simpler solution would have been better.

[Charlie Jones]

Graham and I have talked about masts for the Princess 22 I'm building for Travis. His thoughts are that with the aluminum you get a known, predictable mast bend, whereas with wood it may turn out way too stiff and not bend off at the top of the mast correctly, or conversely, way too limber..

His feelings and what we intend on the Princess is to use aluminum on the lower half - 2/3rds of the mast and a tapered birdsmouth section above that.

Actually, a birdsmouth mast built to the sizes shown for the Princess 22 wouldn't be much trouble to step, since they are mounted in serious tabernacles. My own CLC Sharpie has solid wooden masts, 20 feet long and I can pick them up and stab them into the mast steps with little difficulty. And I'm 63

I built a birdsmouth mast for a customers Weekender which was just over 12 feet long and I could carry it around one handed. Needn't be all that heavy.

[Kudzu]

Graham and I have talked about masts for the Princess 22 I'm building for Travis. His thoughts are that with the aluminum you get a known' date=' predictable mast bend, whereas with wood it may turn out way too stiff and not bend off at the top of the mast correctly, or conversely, way too limber......[/quote']

Thats part of my concern. I am assuming the designer doesn't spec. out a wood mast that I would be on my own. Building one is not a problem. But know what material and size is. Since I would have to guess at so much....

Since this is really a looks issue maybe I could veneer an aluminum stick? Or if I bright finish the deck maybe no one (but me) would notice the aluminum spars? :roll:

Thanks for the input. The more I read about this boat the more I think I will really like. I have looked at small boat designs for several years now and nothing has seemed right for me. I finally just sold my sailboat last summer and decided to get serious about finding something to replace it.

New house (with large basement shop) will be done early spring. I figure by winter I should be through with new home projects and have my wood working shop set up. Good time to build a boat over the winter!

[Charlie Jones]

They don't HAVE to be left aluminum You can always shoot the sticks with some 2 part poly to a light brown color.

Painting an aluminum mast isn't all THAT difficult.

[Kudzu]

Your absolutely right and I probably would paint them too.

[mustangermatt]

Here is an unstayed mast wood mast that seems to be doing the trick :-)

Its a traditional dutch fishing vessel called a Botter. I had the pleasure of caring for and sailing on one as a Sea Scout for several years when I was a teenager. They are much faster than they look ;-)

[attachment over 4 years old deleted by admin]

[Barry Pyeatt]

Ah Yes! Stuart Anderson's Old boat. Now that was a classic and a lot of fun.

[Kudzu]

Now that you mention it..... I have an acquaintance that does faux finishes and murals in homes for living. I understand that her work is not cheap but I only need the exposed sections painted. Hummm...... :mrgreen:

[jlweltz]

Kudzu,

If you like wood masts, take a look at

www.sailingsource.com/ice/articles/mast_made_easy.htm

it is from the DN ice boat. It would need to be modified for length and made

free standing, but it is still fairly simple to build for the streamlined shape and could still rotate on the CS boats.

Jerry

[Kudzu]

Very interesting. Saved that page.

Would hate to be the first one to build it but I do like the simplicity of it.

[PAR]

Chromaveil, not cheap, but does offer the option of wood grain on stuff other then wood. This stuff is being used on hulls to simulate decking, brightly finish planks, etc. It's also on countertops, shower enclosures, extruded aluminum flag poles, just about anything.

http://www.fibreglast.com/showproducts-category-Chromaveil-190.html

[Tom Lathrop]

Don't want to sound critical but I think faux materials are just that - - faux.  Aluminum is a great mast material.  Only very technical and expensive synthetics are better.

I love wood and only build wooden boats but when faced with a choice for Lapwing and having built wooden masts before, aluminum it is.  I did paint them because salt encrusted aluminum is ugly - bad ugly.  I was sailing Windmills and Lightnings when the classes approved aluminum for masts.  Suddenly races in the class got a little tighter and the average sailor got "better".

Any material used honestly looks ok to me.  Made to look like something it is not looks like it's made to look like something it is not. 

Pigs look just fine as pigs until someone puts lipstick on them.  Now where did I hear that before?  :

[PAR]

Tom, I've seen this stuff used and have tried it myself and you can't tell the difference unless you tap on it. It's beautiful, but I'm in agreement, that wood is wood and there's no need to fool any one.

On the other hand, there are new, semi custom production boats coming out that have completely bright hulls and/or decks, but using this type of product. After 10 years of service, you compound it and buff it up, just like gel coat. That's a tough argument to make against varnish or polyurethane coated wood. It doesn't dent, flake off, darken with age or require artistic craftsmanship to repair or recoat. Hit it with some 409, wipe the fish guts off it and you're good to go again.

In not many years, it will be the product you see, instead of wood. It's faster to apply then machine, smooth and finish wood. It can drape over very complex compound shapes, it can be molded to just about any shape. Certainly shapes that would be cost prohibitive if not imposable to execute in real wood.

Us old timers will not be brought to the fake wood trough and forced to drink, but rest assured succeeding generations of owners and builders will be, much like the transformation plywood has had on design and building in recent decades.

[lsearle]

Or, (a variation of the old guy carrying an oar story ...) buy a small plastic graining comb, wander around any place where tradesmen congregate until someone recognises it, he'll be a painter.  Ask him to get two shades of brown satin enamel and grain your metal mast.

 

[dale]

I guess you've seen Jan's CS17.  His masts look nice - not sure how he would rate them for performance.

http://www.fivenineclimber.com/boats_sailing/coresound17_older.htm

http://www.fivenineclimber.com/boats_sailing/coresound17.htm

[Tom Lathrop]

Tom, I've seen this stuff used and have tried it myself and you can't tell the difference unless you tap on it. It's beautiful, but I'm in agreement, that wood is wood and there's no need to fool any one.

On the other hand, there are new, semi custom production boats coming out that have completely bright hulls and/or decks, but using this type of product. After 10 years of service, you compound it and buff it up, just like gel coat. That's a tough argument to make against varnish or polyurethane coated wood. It doesn't dent, flake off, darken with age or require artistic craftsmanship to repair or recoat. Hit it with some 409, wipe the fish guts off it and you're good to go again.

In not many years, it will be the product you see, instead of wood. It's faster to apply then machine, smooth and finish wood. It can drape over very complex compound shapes, it can be molded to just about any shape. Certainly shapes that would be cost prohibitive if not imposable to execute in real wood.

Us old timers will not be brought to the fake wood trough and forced to drink, but rest assured succeeding generations of owners and builders will be, much like the transformation plywood has had on design and building in recent decades.

Paul,

I can't really disagree with you that such a day is coming but like many other aspects of life that are going through generational changes, we are what we are and that is mostly determined by the past.  As far as I know, Eric Sponberg designed the first "classic" gentleman's runabout that used the synthetic wood covering that you mentioned.  This is a high end boat, not a cheap plastic copy.  I asked him how the deck could be repaired if damaged and he replied, "Send the boat back to the builder."  Not a totally satisfactory answer, I thought.

In 1993 Graham and I were in Newport for the WoodenBoat show where we saw Jon Wilson's (of WoodenBoat) beautiful boat with a carbon fiber mast coated with wood veneer.  It seemed a little dishonest to me then but tastes and values change, if slowly.  There are times when wood in its timber, laminated or plywood form is the best logical choice for the home builder and times when it is not.  A well executed wooden mast can be a good choice but for the average home builder, aluminum still make good sense as form follows function.

[Guest Dennis M]

Hi, Charlie, can you give me an idea about how much your masts weigh and their diameter? Thanks, Dennis.