More seaworthy than a Weekender?

[buck]

I'm championing the Weekender's seaworthiness on this and the other board. I'm challenging protractors to come up with a more seaworthy design than the Weekender under 15' I don't think there is one, especially one that will still get on a trailer in any reasonable time. I suppose everyones going to suggest the Pocket Cruiser. Doh!

[Bill Paxton]

You might want to take a look at John Welsford's Navigator. It's 14' 9", and a very good cruising dinghy.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/navigator/index.htm

http://www.openboat.co.nz/

http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/1WBNZOffice/Navigatorbasics/navigators.html

[Frank Hagan]

Boats belong in the same category as politics, religion and who has the best dog. You'll get a ton of arguments, but there's always a lot more "heat than light" in those discussions. They are fun sometimes, though!

"Seaworthiness" is a pretty vague term, and I think that's where you'll get several different interpetations of what makes the best boat. If by "seaworthiness" you mean that the boat is unsinkable, will pop back up if knocked down, and has a self-bailing cockpit in case it is swamped (which just happens to be the most common way small boats sink), then the Weekender in the stock configuration fails. A boat like the Potter 14 wins that definition; the ballast makes it self-righting or close to it, it has foam flotation specified in the plans for positive boyancy, and the cockpit is self-bailing. I think a couple of the Bolger boats are in the same category.

The Weekender seduces us with her siren's song ... sexy good looks and quick, responsive sailing. Add a bunch of flotation, higher freeboard to make the cockpit self-bailing and a few hundred pounds of ballast and she's no longer quite as quick and responsive. She'll still be sexy though.

[buck]

You're quite Frank, on all counts, I suppose my beef is when people come to the board and ask if these are blue water cruisers and we have to say no, after which people seem to write-off the seaworthiness rather than saying no 16' (or even a 21') boat is seaworthy. In actual fact in line with the competition the Weekender with its heavy and solid (good for punching through waves) wooden keel stacks up very well.

Most boats this size have a flat bottom, ah but I can here you say "what about round bilge boats?" In reality unless they have a deep keel they are often pretty flat in the bottom too albeit, with round sides rather than straight sides.

Which brings me to the Navigator, a lovely boat but look at that bottom its almost flat, now I'm a John Welsford fan, his boats are beautiful and reasonably seaworthy they are based on New Zealand's fast, light racing dinghy tradition only these are traditional looking boats. His 21' Penguin looks as though it could handle a reasonable sea and therefore would be a better boat than the Vacationer in rough conditions, but the truth is its a lot bigger, bulkierand weightier. The problem with the Welsford boats (and why I didn't build one) is they are differcult to build, all those chines look pretty but for a cackhanded person like me they would be a real stuff-up. Why he didn't go for stitch and glue in the first place I don't know. They look a nightmare to build. Which brings me to his book, which is excellent, a great mixtureof boatbuilding and cruising stories. I started off liking the boatbuilding bits but after a while the cruising stories get you!

The design I like best is his Houdini design (a sort of Catboat) but he needs to make it bigger say 17' (which would be a nice size for a Catboat) and have a cabin on it (like the PC or CapeCod style Catboats) to appeal to American buyers. The design is only one chine and all the better for it.

The Navigator is very similar to my built up Finn (although a bit wider) and although the Finn is round bilged in a heavy sea and strong wind I'd rather be in my Weekender if it came too it, the Weekender seems to have just an extra margin of safety built round it.

http://groups.msn.com/WeekenderBoatbuilding/finncatboat.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=728

[Frank Hagan]

Boats should be bought or built with the intended purpose in mind. And then the builder has to think about how much time and money they want to invest in the boat. Its far cheaper to buy a used 30'+ Catalina, Hunter, Beneateau, etc. than it is to build one in that class. And probably safer too. But for a 16' boat? Sure you can buy an inexpensive day sailer, but the benefits of building one yourself outweigh the cost difference between building new and buying a used fiberglass boat.

I think that difference disappears after you get over the 23' to 25' range. The complexity of the larger boats makes them much harder for the amateur, and the "success potential" is so much lower.

The stitch and glue boats and easily built boats using ply and stringers like the Stevensons Projects boats really fit for the amateur boat builder. The one thing that surprises me is that we haven't had a lot of Bolger builders join us here; there's a ton of them, and while people argue about Phil Bolger's designs (some are ugly!), the guy is a genius. Seeing the HMS Rose again in "Master and Commander" reminded me yet again that a guy who designs something like the Brick can also design that wonderful updated recreation.

We had a poster a while back who was looking to build a large boat for his first boat, a 45' yacht from a great designer. But so many of those projects end up as empty hulls if a pro boatbuilder isn't involved. Now THAT is a seaworthy design, but it doesn't help much if its rotting in a field with vines growing in it.

[thebob]

The Weekender is one of those boats that seem to be more than the sum of all their parts. On the surface they appear to be square, heavy and outdated, but once you go past first impressions there really is a lot to them.

For such a small boat with a cabin and ease of build, there doesn't seem to be many contenders.

I'm a bit biased, I am very tall and the idea of such a small cabin height just kills the appeal for me. But then I'd need 40' before I was happy there. I also think the wheel steering is a gimmick, and would be my main seaworthiness concern on this design.

I really think the "seaworthiness" could be improved, but to the detriment of charm. And charm goes a long way.

Some people will argue that a lazer is the most seaworthy vessel in the world, and others will point at Queen Mary 2, somewhere in the middle is the truth, it's just that as small boat builders we rationalize toward the smaller end of the scale.

We are really down to horses for courses. If I had to choose a boat with a cabin, I'm a big fan of the Bellhaven 19 concept, but then the reasons I like it, are due to the fact that it would suit where I would like to sail it. I also like the idea that you can gunkhole with it and stand it up at high tide. But of course these aren't really seaworthiness points. Because the Bellhaven is based on the Core Sound I'd expect it to sail like a witch.

[seahawk]

8) hi hi .....don't forget if the boat more than 15 meters you have so manny rules and inspection's for the boat..no paper..no port,think about this.i make a big boat,and cost my more than5 mond.to get 70% of the paper the survy.get money..an much more,the tank's safety............. so menny more...if you can sail get a little boat and have fun.frank is correct,so menny hull's going not to end.just for i have...it's nothing i can read so menny more but my english is not so good.....

[Mike Pennington]

Well said All,

I have been sailing for thirty-six years, before that I was a deck hand on a shrimper in the Gulf of Mexico. I am no world circum navigator, just a coastal hugger, but I have been just as scared on bigger production boats as I have on my Vacationer. :roll:

For the boats we have, we are doing just fine. The right boat for the right occasion. As our skill level goes up we tend to look for bigger better ways to raise our blood preasure. The Stevenson boats are a great way to start/learn to sail, at a price an average man can afford. There is a whole lot of boat for what we put into them.

It is also true that I am a bit of a HAM, when it comes to sailing with production boats. Nothing is better for me than to have one of those skippers come up to me at the dock after the days sail and say WOW! How do you do that? How come you did't have to reef down? It was too rough, we had to come in.

There is nothing better than giving the one finger salute as you fly by to someone who turns their snooty snozz up at a boat they don't understand.

Mike

[Greg Luckett]

Well said All,

>I have been sailing for thirty-six years, before that I was a deck hand >on a shrimper in the Gulf of Mexico.

Was that out of the Galveston Bay area? There were Pennington's that went to school where I did, Clear Creek. Any kin to them?