Uh oh I think I'm screwed, literally.

[tomstock]

Someone suggested using screws instead of nails for the keel, so I picked up 1 1/2" stainless screws listed in the plans for joining 1" to 1" panels. I glued everything up, drilled and screwed one side, flipped it, and did some of the other side when I realized that the first set of screws had gone through the center ply and pushed apart the other side. I now have 3/16" gaps, a few of which show daylight all the way through.

ARRRRGGH GRRRRRRR!!!!!!

To top it off, the screws I drove in stripped so I couldnt back them out to fix the problem. I clamped the wood in a vise and drove more screws a about 2" apart trying to force it together, but still have some gaps here and there where the 1 1/2" screws went all the way through the center panel. I switched to 1" screws after seeing the problem.

To top it all off, the glue was pretty much hard by the time I finally got the pieces screwed together, but with a few gaps still showing.

This sucks. What now? I'm getting the feeling I should spend the next $1000 on a daysailer and take the $500 loss and I told you so from my friends and call it a day.

Tom

[tomstock]

Could I fill the gaps with epoxy before I glass it?

In most places, there are no gaps. There is a small gap about 1ft long which is about 2mm wide. I've tried clamping and screwing it but it wont budge.

Another gap is about 4" long and 3mm wide. This one is just at where the stem starts on top of the keel.

I dont think taking it back apart is an option at this point.

I'll try to get some pictures later today or tomorrow.

-tom

[tomstock]

Okay I've decided on the following options:

1) Remove all of the screws, re-clamp and glue. This might not work because a lot of the screws stripped. I could try cutting a slot in the top of the screw but they are sunk way to deep to cut easily. Maybe I could just cut into the wood (and screw) with my dremel... I could fill the slot cut in the wood with epoxy or bondo when I finish.

2) Squirt epoxy into all of the cracks until it's oozing everywhere, and hope that i got it all.

There is a chance that option 1 will result in a whole day of removing screws only to find that the wood can't be moved because of the glue between the layers is holding it together and apart at the same time.

Tom

[Ed Jones]

I have a few gaps in my keel also, all I did was to fill them with epoxy. I will give you some good advice "don't glass the keel" if you do you will have rot problems later BTDT. If your keel wood gets water in it through cracks in the glass it will be trapped and cause rot.

[Knut]

The way you describe the problem I am sure I would inject epoxy to fill the gaps, without trying any forced clamping or more or less hopeless work on single screw removal. Even if you remove screws, chances are that there are local glue-bridges preventing a closure of the gaps even with a lot of pressure.

When injecting epoxy, make sure to close in the bottom (setting the keel upright) using bondo or similar, inject the epoxy by some sort of pump and start at the lowest point. The start can be through a pipe embedded in the bondo or through a borehole. Also drill some control holes at gradually higher levels that will evacuate air and indicate how much you have filled by epoxy oozing out of the hole. When a control hole yields epoxy, plug it with a prepared wood dowel and continue the process.

Filling gaps of 1-3 mm is just perfect for this kind of technique and it is not so much that the heat development will cause any quality problems. Just plan it properly, make sure you have some sort of suitable pumping device and the epoxy must be pretty fluid. Figure out a good way of attaching the pump to the injection point so it will not leak and cause a loss of pressure. A small bicycle pump should work fine, but you probably have to throw it away afterwards.

Don't despair - GOOD LUCK :!: :!:

[Andrew]

Tom

Have you tried removing the stripped screw with a 'hole saw' bit in a screwdriver?

Then you can fill the hole thats left with some waterproof filler - much like the way the eyebolt for the rudder is mounted

Just a thought

Andrew

[Tom Holder]

re. the stripped screws

Craftsman makes a screw remover bit that goes into your drill and can remove just about any stripped screw. I got a set for my birthday and while I've only used one size on two screws, I pulled wheel cap screws from a set of ET mags made in 1969 that were stripped and encrusted in oxidation. They work really well.

[Tom Holder]

dp

[tomstock]

Yeah, I think removing the screws is going to be out of the question. I think filling it up with epoxy will do the trick, and will probably only cost me $20 worth of Home depot epoxy... I think?

Tom

[Jim Stumpf]

Sleep on it you will feel better in the morning.

This is a bit like closing the gate after the horse is gone but maybe it will help in the future: When using screws to clamp two pieces of wood together I find it best to drill a pilot in the outer layer of wood of sufficient diameter for the screw threads not to bite to tightly, what happens if you don't the screw threads into the first piece through the gap and into the second piece, with the screw threaded into both pieces you will never close the gap. Most people use a bit set up for counter sink and pilot all in one which is helpful but if you really need to clamp a couple of pieces up tight open that first hole a little. Second use square drive screws if you can they are much less likely to strip and 1 bit is enough to build a Vacationer with.

Jim

Vacationer Rudunyet

[Tom Holder]

They work some. Maybe they work better in regulkar steel' date=' but I was lessed than thrilled with their performance in Stainless steel screws.

Fell into the category of worth trying but don't hold your breath.[/quote']

Out of curiosity, were the screws Philips or Robertson?

[Guest Anonymous]

They work some. Maybe they work better in regulkar steel' date=' but I was lessed than thrilled with their performance in Stainless steel screws.

Fell into the category of worth trying but don't hold your breath.[/quote']

Out of curiosity, were the screws Philips or Robertson?

Phillips. I'd have preferred the Robertson, but they aren't very easy to find (Stainless was difficult enough by itself). In Canada the square head is pretty much the standard. I wish it was that way here.

Tom

[Tom Holder]

Maybe I can fund myself some wood smuggling Robbies across the border

Screws, who needs screws?

[Guest Anonymous]

Maybe I can fund myself some wood smuggling Robbies across the border

Screws' date=' who needs screws?[/quote']

Actually, you probably could. Set up a web site and sell a screw "kit"... all the necessary screws for the weekender, boxed and ready to go.

Tom

[Frank Hagan]

I agree with what the others said about filling the cracks with epoxy. I had a few small ones, and tried to fill them with Weldwood (doesn't work, and really hard to sand!) Then I used epoxy by just pouring in small amounts.

I would use PVC tape along the bottom of the keel, turn it upright, and pour in the top. When you are done and the epoxy is cured, turn the keel upside down, remove the tape, and look for any voids. Fill these with epoxy, and you're set.

If your boat was going to live in the water all the time this would be a bigger deal than it is. You could leave the crack as it is if you're only going to day sail, as long as you allow the crack to drain after sailing. So it isn't as important as the boat building books and magazines tell you ... a boat on a trailer has a lot less going on than one that lives in the water!

[tomstock]

Thanks guys for the advice. I'm beyond my budget this weekend already so I wont be able to buy epoxy and fix the keel. I hadnt been planning on screwing it up and was hoping to get 3d by today. Instead, I'll be cutting the 1/2" and 3/8" ply for the hull, and next weekend will have to be the keel fixing session and hopefully 3d.

Tom

[tdrown]

The same exact thing happened to me. I was very tempted to redo the keel (especially since I used a softer wood), but didn't feel like spending the money and wanted to finish by my deadline. I ended up pouring resin down the small crack and using a lot of clamps. There still was a small gap and I filled as much as I could with gel coat when I was painting the hull and keel after glassing (I did not glass the keel). If I were to do it again I would probably unscrew and redo if thats at all posible. I am not a synthetic materials expert, but you might be able to use polyester resin just for a filler, its about $20/gallon at Home Depot, not good as a glue, but I'm not sure as a filler (I have used it, I think it would be fine).

[Zeroice]

You could squirt polyurethane glue in the gaps which will expand to fill all openings well even with clamping afterward. For the screws grinding with a di-grinder would work well to get rid of the excess screw points.

[tomstock]

... you might be able to use polyester resin just for a filler' date=' its about $20/gallon at Home Depot, not good as a glue, but I'm not sure as a filler (I have used it, I think it would be fine).[/quote']

I went ahead and picked up a gallon of poly resin from Home Depot. It was $20, and worth a try. I looked at my keel and the gaps aren't all THAT bad so i think I could tape up the bottom of the keel, and fill as much as possible with resin. This boat will be out of the water more than it's in the water, so I'm not too worried about it. I'll just fill in the cracks and paint it, not glass it.

This weekend I go 3d!!! (If the weather will let me).

In the meantime, I'm reading "Tinkerbelle". Life is good.

Tom

[tdrown]

The reason polyester resin is bad for glue (I THINK, I'm no synthetic materials expert) is that is might let moisture in. But I suppose a filler doesn't need to be water proof (I don't think bondo is). It is a little runny so add wood flour or microballons or something of that sort.